BuzzerBeater Forums

Hi,

by virtual table I meant that you only consider games between tied teams and make small table with few games between them.
I am not sure if its fair.
We have a lot of games and maybe every +/- should count etc.

ED proposal seems fine.
ED likes offensive points, Wagner likes defensive points, I am rather def type but both are ok.

I checked that official rules promote offensive points like ED said so maybve we can stick to that.......

Thanks for your explanation Paul George.. That's something that I'm not very familiar with, but virtual table seems like an interesting (and possibly good) way to handle such situation.

Using only virtual table in comparison would go with the same spirit as "having won our Regular Season meeting get the better position", while simply referring to +/- is more generalized way of ranking teams.
That's not to say it would be worse way, though, as it does have it's strong points as you pointed out.

As for fairness, no system ever satisfies all needs/wishes... And I get/understand what you mean by that. It is within the core spirit of HGL that everyone should meet everyone during regular season (and within your sensible reasoning, all that should probably count).

On the other hand, it is exactly these teams that are being compared (with even record), and their performance against each other is what is being scrutinized here in a virtual table example, so in that sense it could be thought of being even more fair (and it is in the line with the current rule that you first try to rate teams based on game results between their closest combatants with the same record, instead of rating them by all games +/-), as it is taking a look at point differential of those exact games that these (3) teams have been playing against each other.
It's also easier/quicker to count points within a virtual table only, but that's only a minor thing/point: more important is to reach optimal decision.

Having said that, it might be the easiest (and still fair) way to utilize Regular Season +/- point differential (PD) as a first comparison method in a 3-way tie, and also after that apply different comparison layers if needed.

Examples/options:

Example 1.
If +/- tied between 3 teams during whole Regular Season, which is extremely unlikely, then we'd proceed to either more scored or less allowed points-comparison. (In this example of course, this so called virtual table would not be utilized at all.)
If no tie in +/- (and teams would've won each other so that ranking order couldn't be directly determined, in other words one of those 3 teams hasn't lost to those other two teams), then teams would be put into a ranking order based on whole Regular Season +/- scoring differential ("RS +/- PD").

Note though that if 3 teams would be tied (in regular season win-loss record) and "only" 2 out of 3 of those teams would be tied in RS +/- PD, then one option could be that we could reduce the number of comparable teams to 2 by dropping worst team in +/- of whole RS to lowest of those 3 positions, and apply a normal comparison method (winning RS match of the season between these teams) to rest of compared 2 teams, and that would solve the problem.


Example 2.
Other option would be to utilize virtual table in the case of "3 way tie in whole RS +/- situation" (should +/- point differential of RS to be used as a most important comparison method in 3-way tied record-situations, instead of virtual table in first place), in which +/- scoring differential of those matches only (2 matches per team) would be the determining factor (and then either PA or PS).



I'm also saying these to underline the point, that no selection is ever perfect/will satisfy everyone 100%. :) Luckily, this isn't one of the absolutely critical decisions anyway, but it's something that's best to be agreed beforehand to avoid "on the fly"-decisions.

Last edited by Wagner at 11/25/2025 11:37:00 AM

@all HGL managers: HGL Season 4 is getting closer than you may think, so it's time to start thinking of challenging responsibilities (token usage per team) for Season 4.

Are any of the managers short in tokens, and would like to reduce their token usage per HGL Season?

If so, please let me know, and we can try to make adjustments on challenge responsibilities.

Also, if you've been voluntary in past/currently but don't want to be in future, please let me know.

Most likely LennuK. (BC Eos) will create a schedule for us on Season 4 (especially if number of participating teams changes - Suuret Muinaiset still hasn't informed of us for their participation on Season 4, all others have), and as it stands, here's the post that I/him are currently using as a standpoint in terms of voluntary teams: (327516.230).

EDIT:
As for new token usage volunteers, we have also:
(Please note:
Older post of mine of which link is found above has not been edited, but this listing works as an addition to that).

- Coach Faz from Les Gueux du Marais (announced October 25th, 2025)

- demars from Elan Demars (announced October 25th, 2025)

- SventraCanestri from Virtus Portici (announced October 26th, 2025)



Last edited by Wagner at 11/27/2025 6:37:26 AM

Hey Wagner,

I have a lot of tokens so I can send more challenges if needed

Hey Wagner,

I have a lot of tokens so I can send more challenges if needed

Thanks very much Coach Faz! :)

I've got much tokens, so count me in ;)

I've got much tokens, so count me in ;)

Me too, I can spend tokens to organize challenges for the HGL ;)

I've got much tokens, so count me in ;)

Thank you demars - great to hear this, and this reply is easily worth +1 :)

I've got much tokens, so count me in ;)

Me too, I can spend tokens to organize challenges for the HGL ;)

Thanks SventraCanestri for volunteering, I added you to a list of new volunteers (just few posts above)... :)

Sure, if we agree to have the day of the first HGL game (Monday after the first regular league game) as the ultimate deadline, then I will do the same calculations from Season 4 accordingly to make sure that the top-8 salaries of respective seasons don't have to be adjusted mid-season.

Feel free to let me know if you want me to recalculate the top-8 statistics for other teams apart from FRE for this season, where transfers were done between October 15th and October 20th. I can then also try to recreate the teams for affected teams on October 20th and provide the corrected data.

I think it would be most clear option to use this moment of start of the new HGL season as a deadline for determining top8-salaries. Then we wouldn't probably ever have to wonder in the future how was this detail/practice handled, if we use that deadline, as it's quite logical (at least to me).

I have almost finished checking the transfers-post content on Seasons 2 and 3, and prior to publication I can send you a list of possibly affected teams by BBMail. I can/may also send some potential questions that might arise (in terms of what should the season beginning top8-values be, if and as we use October 20th as a deadline for Season 3), and whether or not you can easily recall if some transfers were included in your calculations.
Nevertheless, thank you for your offer and continuous help - I'll keep that offer in mind and please don't forget, that help is much appreciated (whether or not I end up utilizing the offer on a given occassion)!

[...]
As mentioned before, I'd consider it more optimal to have an equal number of teams instead of odd number of teams and currently we have 17 teams for Season 4 (as Alanurmon Rikkaat will join us for Season 4), if Suuret Muinaiset and Hårdboll will decide to keep on playing on HGL Season 4. This way also every team would play on every Round...

I quoted myself above, as content of this post is going to be related to that.

Unfortunately, Suuret Muinaiset (manager cthulhu) has decided to leave HGL after this season. For me personally, of course losing Finnish team from our HGL team roster is grim news, but it's understandable and it's life, and I thank cthulhu for all these seasons in HGL, and warmly wish you welcome to HGL in the future!
(And let's not forget addition of another Finnish team, Alanurmon Rikkaat, to our HGL team roster on Season 4)!

So as HGL Season 4 is concerned, it seems more likely day by day that we'll be running with 16 team roster on Season 4 as well.

This would mean that we could utilize/use the same schedule than what we have been using during first 3 seasons.

We could, however, do some small changes to schedule if that's what managers would want(?)

By changes I refer to changing match blocks to different places. For a single team this would mean the same as shuffling the schedule, so you'd just meet different teams at different stages of the season.

As for positives with the current setup (using the exact same schedule than during first 3 seasons) there's the obvious positive side that you can easily check out previous season's schedules, and see how you've fared up against the same opponent when you played them last time (and that's especially true for me as I can't see anyone's games in their regular team schedule).

Positive side of changing match blocks to different rounds would include changing the "difficulty" of beginning, mid and end of season schedules, so difficulty of season wouldn't be repeated as such from season to season.
(However, team strengths do change quite a lot from season to season, so perhaps apart from VPO and HAD who haven't been beaten by anyone else but each other, mid-level teams may be able to give very strong teams a good run for their money in one or two seasons for now if not on this season, so this lessens the negative effect of repeating the schedule from season to season).

@all HGL managers:
What do you guys think, should we on Season 4
A) use the same schedule (matches on exactly same order) than on previous HGL Seasons, or
B) change places of match blocks (for example, Round 1 matches could be played during Round 4, etc.), which would shuffle the schedule? (Same matches would take place during the same game days, but for a single team that would feel like the whole schedule has been changed. For example for Round 15 WAG-LGM and ED-TRO etc. are nowadays scheduled, and all current Round 15 matches would still be played during the same match day, but these matches would be moved to some other Round instead of Round 15).

Both of these options would prevent us from having to redo the whole schedule (which by hand/by utilizing AI is either somewhat risky and/or arduous process, as manual check is having to be made to ensure validity/correctness of the schedule), so feel free to tell us your opinion about your preference ((option A) or B)).

Last edited by Wagner at 11/27/2025 7:28:22 AM