BuzzerBeater Forums

Another useful piece of info here, mate. Thumbs up!

- All training gives you 10% of the training amount to a random skill. The gym gives you 1, 2, or 3 more of those based on level.

I strongly doubt that this is accurate though... Have you confirmed those numbers with the BBs?

As far as I remember, cross-training used to depend on the extremity of the discrepancy in the different skill levels. A well rounded player would, in general, get a smaller "penalty" than a more one-sided fellow. In other words the cross-training deduction varies from player to player but the cross-training "bonus" is fixed. Which would in turn lead to somewhat slower training for unbalanced players.

Lastly, I am almost certain that the cross-training boost is much smaller that 10% per level. In the manual/user knowledge base they talk about additional slots and I agree - there is one additional slot of each level of the gym. No one specifically said however (or at least I have not come across this) that all pre-gym cross-training goes to just one slot. My educated guess would be that there are two or three slots without gym (~2-4% each), so each level of the building would increase cross-training effects by merely 2-4%, not 10%.

I would much appreciate your thoughts on this particular subject.

I was surprised too, none of this is guessing however. All of this was posted by a BB on the forums and then looked over and approved for posting by a BB as well. So it's been confirmed by a BB not once, but twice.

However, I can go into my interpretation of the details a bit more unofficially (nothing I comment to you is actually official, the only thing I've confirmed being the main post). The 10% is 10% of the training amount, so if you have an older player, or got less minutes, or are training something that trains slowly, that 10% will be much smaller. It doesn't mean the skill gets 0.10 further in progression.

As an 18 year old, training something like 1v1, you'd get the max amount from these crosses. However as the player even gets to 21-22, 10% of that training is about 70% or so of what you'd see at 18 and thus so is every single cross-training as well. That's sort of where it all evens out in my eyes and the gym might play a much larger role in producing the high TSP we see at the U21 level now. We all believed it was mostly in the Youth Trainer, but I think both played a factor in the +15 or so TSP we see after the buffs.

Yep, naturally it is 10% of the training, which diminishes with age and is dependent on the type of training itself.

If true however, that would mean ~25 TSP difference in the final builds of max potential players, or ~15-20 TSP at age 24-25 where potential caps don't contaminate the data, between players trained with a lvl 3 gym and no gym. As NT coach, closely monitoring training for many players - I have not seen such a huge difference.

Before the gym and youth coach we were used to getting 15-16 pops in the first season of 1v1. Now the meta is ~17-19 pops. This is around 15-20% increase due to youth coach and gym combined. If we attribute 5-7% of this to the youth coach (it is a popular belief that youth coach effectiveness is 1% per level), then again the gym increase would be 10-12% at best, not 30% for sure.

I think part of the reason you won't see it via TSP is that sometimes the training can go to FT, ST (things that don't attribute to TSP growth). They can also go into skills you have no intention of training in the long run and you may never see a pop there. I think about 1/6th of the difference can be seen there.

At a certain age too, the training will go into skills that you no longer want to pop (ones that are already at 20), or they will be diminished by elastics in some way. Some explanation might lie there. Maybe there are additional penalties to these 10%'s that we don't know about under the hood. Maybe they are counted at 10% of the raw training value before your trainer and youth trainer increase them.

I also believed gym constituted about 8-10TSP difference at level 3 but not 25 TSP. I think about 10 of the 25TSP can be explained by us simply looking at the distribution of skills, FT/ST, hitting skill caps or elastics. The other 5 TSP may be something about the exact details of the implementation that we do not know about. Or that is my assumption when I got this knowledge.

I think part of the reason you won't see it via TSP is that sometimes the training can go to FT, ST (things that don't attribute to TSP growth). They can also go into skills you have no intention of training in the long run and you may never see a pop there. I think about 1/6th of the difference can be seen there.

That part I agree on. I'd even say 1/4th to 1/5th since most training types improve at least three different skills and ST/FT are like 2/9 left. Then again the same percentage of the no-gym cross-training goes to ST/FT too, so it's more like 3-4 TSP lost there, not 10.

There are many other aspects (like whether elastics matters for cross-training, does cross-training tend to go into lower skills etc) that would make this way to over-complicated.

One thing though, and it's a huge conundrum for me because in general I am against BBs sharing this much detail with the community, but since we are already at this point - it would be cool if Justin could throw us a bone here.

Hahaha yes, I sure now!

Go ahead, please.

Yeah, that's pretty much given.

How about you just reveal how many slots there are in the base (no gym) cross-training algorithm and we leave it at that?

Justin: I went ahead and edited it out. Thank you for checking the implementation of that again.

mink0ff: In the future I think we'll be getting something similar to x% rather than exact number to avoid these conversations and less potential for incorrect or confusing information. I think broad ideas about how the engine, training, etc... functions without exact numbers is probably the best way for us to receive new information. Thank you for double checking the information on here and helping improve the accuracy!