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From: elpupe

This Post:
44
324656.33 in reply to 324656.27
Date: 8/27/2024 8:05:00 AM
Pupazzia
II.4
Overall Posts Rated:
139139
Second Team:
Puppets Madness
Free speech ≠ speech without consequences

There's a difference between consequences from the government and consequences from the court of public opinion. Freedom of speech protects from government consequences, not public opinion consequences.

If I harass someone and follow them down the street and they record me and I lose my job, that's a consequence. If I make Hitler jokes on the website of the company I work for I'll probably lose my job as well. If I say Alonso is a potato and he should be planted in a field, BB can't put me in jail as a consequence, they can however choose to give me a warning, fine me, or ban me if they feel it is appropriate.



I think this is going to become a political debate, and this is not the right place to have it.

The point about Alonso is this: there are no motivation for sanction, there is no damage done, there is no offense made, there is NOTHING.

From: elpupe

This Post:
11
324656.34 in reply to 324656.28
Date: 8/27/2024 8:07:04 AM
Pupazzia
II.4
Overall Posts Rated:
139139
Second Team:
Puppets Madness
Anti-fascists tend to know that in a tolerant society, you must be intolerant to intolerance. We can't just be out there normalizing Nazism.


this is plain stupid (I know internet is full of wrong Popper citation, but nobody read the original)

Anyway. This is not the place for a political debate.


Last edited by elpupe at 8/27/2024 8:07:17 AM

This Post:
1111
324656.35 in reply to 324656.25
Date: 8/27/2024 8:57:46 AM
Kitakyushu
ASL
Overall Posts Rated:
12341234
That is fine and dandy but this is the same guy who banned someone for giving a player a sexual nickname.
I think it was Dan "long dong" Silver. In my opinion, if you can't follow the rules, don't try and enforce them on others.

From: KM-Jorx
This Post:
99
324656.36 in reply to 324656.34
Date: 8/27/2024 8:59:11 AM
El Garito
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
394394
Second Team:
El Garito 2.0
I'm sorry I don't consider that someone can make jokes about Nazism, Nazism has no place in bad taste jokes.
The apology for Nazism should be condemned anywhere who may consider it to be a joke in bad taste, so they have the same problem as someone who defends a genocidal movement.
That said, Alonso should be out of this game immediately, he, his team and everything that has to do with him.

This Post:
99
324656.37 in reply to 324656.34
Date: 8/27/2024 9:02:57 AM
CD Numancia
III.12
Overall Posts Rated:
201201
If a normal user says five insults on the forums in fifteen years, he is banned from the game forever.

BB-Alonso sends DMs to the Polish coach laughing what happened in the past, calls his players offensive names (that is not a simple joke) and go around the forums laughing at everyone, going unpunished for any crime. .

Where is the line between "inappropriates" attitudes or not?

I'm sure most of the BB staff laugh at all BB-Alonso's jokes, otherwise someone would have written something here or made a decision about it.

Last edited by carlos88vazquez at 8/27/2024 9:04:21 AM

This Post:
11
324656.38 in reply to 324656.35
Date: 8/27/2024 10:26:51 AM
Pupazzia
II.4
Overall Posts Rated:
139139
Second Team:
Puppets Madness
That is fine and dandy but this is the same guy who banned someone for giving a player a sexual nickname.
I think it was Dan "long dong" Silver. In my opinion, if you can't follow the rules, don't try and enforce them on others.



I don't know if this is true, but I agree with the principle.

What I disagree are the requests for ban..
Imho people that can't stand a joke on hitler or distinguish a bad joke from a crime, well they should be considered a danger to the community.

This Post:
99
324656.39 in reply to 324656.38
Date: 8/27/2024 11:18:26 AM
Spicy Sparks
IV.47
Overall Posts Rated:
110110
The recent discussion about some users in the forum has come to my attention.

I have politely asked Alonso to remove any Nazi references related to the mentioned player. Even if it was intended as a joke, it was inappropriate, and we strongly condemn any reference to Nazism.

We acknowledge the importance of educating future generations about World War II, the atrocities, crimes against humanity, and the Holocaust.

I want to emphasize that politics are ABSOLUTELY not allowed in BB. This is one of the first rules of the forum. We will not allow the BB Forums to become a place to attack any country, make accusations against any country or manager, or target any specific race or religion. BB is a basketball manager game, and there is no room for such behavior.

We are here because we enjoy basketball and management games, which have nothing to do with politics.

We will sanction those who disrupt the gaming experience for others, and I fully support any GM who takes action against such managers.

BuzzerBeater should be a game that unites people, not divides them.

Regarding Alonso's role: since I joined BB, he has approached me and helped me understand certain issues, primarily technical ones. He has also reported the current status of the game to me and made official announcements after receiving my approval.

We are currently very busy with the game's conversion, so we do not have the time to focus on all the day-to-day operations, which are handled by EGM, GMs, BB-Marin, and BB-Justin.

If we had to focus on these daily operations, we would have to pause the game's conversion and improvement, which would be detrimental to everyone.

I receive a lot of BB-mails and Discord DMs daily, and with all the work we have to do, it is nearly impossible to handle them. Most of these messages are game-related debates that should be addressed directly to the GMs, and I often lack the context to make the right decisions.

I hope this clarifies the matter once and for all. I wish everyone continues to enjoy BB for what it is—a wonderful basketball game that has entertained us for many years and will hopefully do so for many more to come!

This Post:
1313
324656.41 in reply to 324656.40
Date: 8/28/2024 12:24:29 PM
Súria Lakers
IV.15
Overall Posts Rated:
33453345
Second Team:
Súria Lakers II
Since this thread is still open (although it was closed before BB-Marco's response), I allow myself the right to post the same message that I wrote in Discord, since the topic has continued there.

Discord is a great tool, but I think all clarifications should be made here.




Hello everyone!

I've exposed my thoughts several times by now, but let me write my (I hope last) POV on this topic...
It is not a secret that I'm not a fan of Alonso from a long time ago but everything I said and everything I'll say has nothing to do with it.

1) I can understand that the player's nickname was just a poorly placed "joke" for some people. Especially after adding the number 88, which for me went from being a "joke" to being a "Nazi apology."
It is something that any other user could have done, which if seen by someone else and reported, would have received at least a warning from the GM.
I know this 100% since it is something that has happened before.

2) Waiting a few days without saying anything in the Forum despite being one of the most active managers there, to end up changing the name and translating it into Hebrew, was, for me, the most unjustifiable part of the situation.
Alonso was aware that what he had done was bothering (and exceeding the limits of the rules) several managers, and yet he decided to PROVOKE with the change to Hebrew.

The extremely worst thing about all this is that he is part of the BB-team and no one from it wrote in 4 days. Possibly the other GMs and BBs were ashamed of him

3) What is this supposed to be about having a manager who can decide which prefix to use? Until a few weeks ago he was "CM" (and oh, surprise, according to what a person from within the BB-team told me, he did not do Communiy Manager tasks).
After a discussion in the Forum, the prefix was removed and became Alonso, but he still had GM powers.
And now what? There have been people complaining about the lack of transparency in the game, so he or Marco have decided to put the "GM" prefix back on him. Ridiculous.
4) Speaking of GMs... I don't know any other GM (aside from those who cheated and were banned) who have had so many complaints from different managers and communities about the way he speak and treats at others and the impunity he has, over so many years.

In the game hierarchy, "BB" are above "GM", right? Why hasn't anyone acted yet?

I said it once and I will say it again: I would not have someone in my company who is always causing problems with my clients.

5) I think BB-Marco has to act in some way and there is a lot of work ahead:

I have read a message from you saying that Alonso is the only manager who had offered you help; Is that why he already has total impunity?

Sure thing, the point is that we need more active ones since no one apart from Alonso approached me offering help
- via Discord.

In another message you say that you want to have more GMs. Has anyone told you about a project that the previous owners created? They made an email where managers could offer themselves for any position, explaining their motivations. Maybe you could recover several interesting managers from there even if years have passed.

After what you have seen (and believe me, you have seen little) from Alonso, do you still have the strength to add the GM prefix to him again and defend him?

6) I completely disagree with banning Alonso from the game, as I think that is a completely excessive measure.

Nevertheless, I do think Alonso should be punished in some way; not only because of this case, which has been the tip of the iceberg, but because of his way of acting. We could possibly make a very long post about all the times he has provoked other communities, and that, for someone who represents the game, is something that gives a very bad impression.

Marco, this is now your business and as such, you want it to be successful; Don't let someone like him affect part of your income.

PKT desde la Temporada 4



Para ver la imagen en mayor tamaño:
(https://i.postimg.cc/mDhxMLDX/e3700169252f336ab3c187ad4773...)
This Post:
33
324656.42 in reply to 324656.41
Date: 8/28/2024 12:28:34 PM
Súria Lakers
IV.15
Overall Posts Rated:
33453345
Second Team:
Súria Lakers II
One last thing...
We are still waiting for Alonso's apology, even if they are without real intention.

PKT desde la Temporada 4



Para ver la imagen en mayor tamaño:
(https://i.postimg.cc/mDhxMLDX/e3700169252f336ab3c187ad4773...)
This Post:
88
324656.43 in reply to 324656.41
Date: 8/28/2024 1:13:23 PM
Slamador Retrievers
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
3030
Second Team:
Labracadabra
Thank you, it was very frustrating to see a half-baked statement that did not address the real issue and have the conversation immediately censored from the forums. (Specially when the person we are talking about is a part of the moderation team)

This is the place for discussion you know... the game. Having to create an account with a third party service should not be a requirement to express our thoughts, as it excludes a big part of the community.

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