BuzzerBeater Forums

there should certainly be variance, but what form it takes is the really interesting problem in my mind. players having particular skills in the various aspects of the game is a set starting point, and even in real life there's probably a way to measure that (statistics). from there BB has built layers that have added effects (tactics, opponents tactics, stamina, home court, etc), and these, again, are things we see the effects of in the NBA. the results of these are also measurable, in some ways, through statistics.

the thing that's building as a question in my mind is how the BB simulations of NBA games are taking game shape into account. are they at all?

and that got me thinking... isn't game shape (or form in HT) one of those things that should define a lot of the variance? it certainly does in real sport. perhaps game shape in BB should be less known and predictable...? a manager can put a player on the court expecting them to play well based on what they knew about the previous season or game or practice's performance, but should they really know? like in the NBA, couldn't a player that's been playing well totally flop one night and blow a game? or vice versa?

i'm not trying to make a suggestion - just posting the things i was wondering about when i considered how you'd judge game shape in the NBA.

at present i have actually completely ignored the question of game shape.. and set it equal and average for all players.

I guess in my mind I was thinking of using it as a way to model the effects of having back to back road games... or such effects.. and maybe have them be differential on age.. for instance Shaq plays better with more rest.

One could even conceive of trying to model each player individually with respect to game shape.

Honestly though I see game shape as a more minor component of real life variance. For the vast majority of times when a player has a bad night its not because he is tired per say... thats not to say his poor performance was a fluke of statistics.. meaning if he had taken the same shots and boxed out people with the same vigor he might have gotten many more points and rebounds. However, I dont know if there is any hope in being able to model those fluxuations.. beyond considering the specific opponent he is facing on that night.

For instance.. a follower of New Orleans might have concluded that David West had a poor Game Shape versus Portland, or Elton Brand had a poor game shape versus LA. However, my simulation suggests that you only needed to consider the defensive ratings of his opponent to explain much of their poor performance, as I didnt module their ratings or game shape for either game.

Game Shape i think serves a very different and important role in buzzerbeater the game because it is one more strategic decision managers have to make... do i play my best players a lot this game and reap benefit now at the cost of them being tired later.. or do I save their energy for later. I think you need only look at the substitution patterns in the NBA to tell that this is not a decision which NBA coaches and managers make on a regular basis, except with a few players such as Shaq. Certaintly not to the extent Buzzerbeater managers do or MLB baseball managers do.

Last edited by BB-Forrest at 12/5/2008 4:58:19 PM

that makes a lot of sense.

have you guys considered trying to model something on a player by player basis that does intentionally introduce variance? i mean like something in the background that managers can't see that effects the player's performance somewhat randomly. like a way to model a player being "hot" or "cold"? for BB, not for the NBA simulation obviously.

it ok

can i see james poseys skills?

please?

Jump Shot: strong Jump Range: sensational
Outside Def.: average Handling: mediocre
Driving: respectable Passing: inept
Inside Shot: prominent Inside Def.: average
Rebounding: respectable Shot Blocking: pitiful
Stamina: average Free Throw: prominent

thank you
i hope that doesnt sound too critical but i thought that posey is one of the best defenders in the nba. so why is he only avarage in ID and OD?

http://www.82games.com/ilardi2d.htm

cause i need a systematic rating system

ok its good to use that as your base for the players skills even though its not perfect;)

Maybe you can try simulate more games ? I think that be much more interesting to watch results ;)