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Suggestions > Add +/- to game stats...

Add +/- to game stats...

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This Post:
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12027.1
Date: 1/9/2008 10:36:40 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
137137
I noticed Yahoo! and others are now including this statistic in their box scores:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AoecFHcpu04fbE8...

I think it would be real helpful to managers to figure out which players are helping and which players are hurting their team.

Is that super scorer with no defense really an asset? How about the post player who can rebound? Is the defensive stopper effective or only when the other team has a monster scorer for him to guard. etc.

Steve
Go Bruins!

This Post:
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12027.2 in reply to 12027.1
Date: 1/10/2008 7:23:52 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
1515
You are looking at the Lenovo stat. It is meant to see which combinations of players are most effective together. Taken as a straight forward +/- it can be extremely misleading in basketball because of matchup and lineup issues.

This Post:
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12027.3 in reply to 12027.2
Date: 1/10/2008 6:12:07 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
137137
Isn't this true of any statistic though -- I mean you might go 0-7 shooting one night because you were up against a great defender.

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics

Steve
Go Bruins!

This Post:
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12027.4 in reply to 12027.3
Date: 1/10/2008 7:40:19 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1515
That isn't the same thing at all. Shooting percentage is supposed to reflect a players performance against various defenses, so you are simply looking at stat meant to refelect individuals when that individual has an off night. Shooting % would still remain an indicator of what it is meant to indicate because a shooter will face different types of defender every night and his shooting average will reflect this.

The Lenovo stat is meant to determine the effectiveness of groups of players as a unit. It was NEVER supposed to measure an individuals performance, and when they show it as an individual stat it is meaningless because it indicates what your teamates do on the floor as much or more than what you do.

Let me give you an example.

Rajon Rondo is ahead of Kobe Bryant so far this year in +/-. He is sitting eigth in the NBA right now at +258 gaining .255/minute while Kobe is +236 at .190/min. Why? Because Rondo almost always is playing with one or more of Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, or Ray Allen....not because he is measurable better or more effective IN ANY WAY than Kobe Bryant, even if he has a better +/-.

Taken as a stat to measure individuals is useless, and it was never intended to do so, even if some have begun reporting it that way. It is meant to allow one to measure the effectiveness of players as they play together as units, and is only effective when used thus.

It could be a useful stat if you want to use it in the proper way...to determine which combinations of players work effectively together, but this requires much more in depth calculations and a new stat gathering engine entirely.

This Post:
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12027.5 in reply to 12027.4
Date: 2/18/2008 11:22:02 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
137137
Hah...others are agreeing with me now!

Steve
Go Bruins!

This Post:
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12027.8 in reply to 12027.6
Date: 2/23/2008 7:19:31 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
137137
What happens in the case of a zone?

Steve
Bruins

This Post:
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12027.9 in reply to 12027.8
Date: 2/24/2008 1:17:14 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
137137
I think this is just calculated like the statistic in hockey...points for when on the floor minus points against when on the floor.

example from yahoo:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2008022312


Steve

This Post:
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12027.10 in reply to 12027.9
Date: 2/25/2008 4:16:11 PM
Olympus Team
IV.4
Overall Posts Rated:
4949
The players already have a ranking at the end of the game to show how good they did during the game. Isn't it enough ?

This Post:
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12027.11 in reply to 12027.10
Date: 2/25/2008 5:45:29 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
137137
The players already have a ranking at the end of the game to show how good they did during the game.


It was just a suggestion for another statistic that is starting to be commonly used in RL box scores.

Isn't it enough ?


Can you ever have enough money? women? statistics?


Steve
Go Bruins!