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Insdie/Outside Isolation

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From: Mange73
This Post:
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177361.1
Date: 3/13/2011 1:03:45 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
3737
I/O Isolation comapared to other Tactics?

I can not find this in the Game Manual, if it should be there I think it's bad not to update a Manual when new functionionalty is added, kind off sucks!


This Post:
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177361.2 in reply to 177361.1
Date: 3/13/2011 1:49:03 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
1515
Recently added feature (late last season). There've been other questions about it; Some statistics from those previous threads that I posted.

First Game

set it to TIE, expecting to lose the game, and ended up doing a lot better than I'd thought- here's some raw stats for the game.

My starting SG played the full 48 minutes, and took 25 of the team's 89 shots, roughly 28% of the total shots taken.
My starting PG payed the full 48 minutes, and took 7 of the team's 89 shots (missing them all, might I add?), a bit less than 8% of the total shots taken.
The SF Position was split 26/19/3 between 3 players, with some stats not quite accurate, because two of the three got a couple minutes at Center. I'll estimate that 29 of the team's 89 shots were taken at SF, about 30% of the total shots.
The PF position was played by the same guy the full 48 minutes. He took 12 shots during the game, about 13% of the total shots. He also led the team with 13 rebounds.
The Center was split between 5 players (strangely enough!?!) with 44 of those minutes being split between 3 players that can provide me reasonable statistics, because the other 4 minutes were by players who played mostly SF.

The team's rebounding suffered severely. Only 36 rebounds is the lowest number of rebounds the team has gotten since season 11 (my first season in BB). That being said, 13 of those 36 rebounds, over 1/3 of the total, were made by the Power Forward. The starting Center, who played 34 minutes, only had 2 rebounds. He also fouled out.

20 assists is a large number for my team; the average my team usually gets is around 13-16 a game.
At least 5 and at most 9 of those assists were made by the Center position, the reason I say this is because of the one player who got 3 minutes at Center and 26 at SF, who had 4 assists. The starting center had 5 assists in 34 minutes.
4 assists were produced from the SG position, and 4 were produced byt he PF position. 2 assists were produced by the PG, and the remaining assists (at least 1, and at most 5) were by the SF.


Second Game

I can't specify how fast the pace was of the game featuring Outside Iso, but...

Knowing he was using Look Inside, a 4 of 5 pace (I'm use a number system to judge pace so that I know, 5 being fastest, 1 being the slowest.

In the past, I've played a majority of Run and Gun, which is a 5 on my system, I'd played a couple of games against look inside. The most recent of which was a game in which the total number of shots taken was 190, with 22 total turnovers. Comparing this to a Look Inside vs Outside Iso game, in which there were 186 shots taken and 20 turnovers, I'd estimate the pace of an Outside Iso offense to be around a 3.7-4.0 on a 5 point scale.

Looking back, I found an additional set of data which might be helpful. Late last season, I played a scrimmage. I hadn't noticed until now that my opponent used Outside Iso (and Outside Box and One). The data is a bit skewed due to players playing multiple positions during the game, but I'll try to estimate to the best I can.

WOW, this data is gonna be hard to sum up about right- one guy played 3 different positions it appears.

SF took about 35 of 101 shots- that's 34.65% of all shots. 13 of those shots were 3 point shots.
SG took about 23 of 101 shots- that's 22.77% of all shots. 16 of those shots were 3 point shots.
PG took about 12 of 101 shots- that's 11.88% of all shots. 4 of those shots were 3 point shots.
PF took about 20 of 101 shots- that's 19.08% of all shots. 2 of thsoe shots were 3 point shots.
C took about 12 of 101 shots- that's 11.88% of all shots. 1 of those shots was a 3 point shot.

The team was much better than me, however, so this data's a bit different than an equil-ish matchup.

63 rebounds for the team, divided 28 to the C, and 15 to the PF.
15 turnovers, 6 of which were given by the PF position.
19 assists, including 8 for the starting PG, 6 for the starting SG.

This Post:
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177361.3 in reply to 177361.1
Date: 3/13/2011 1:48:56 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
3535
I've a few experiences, my last game http://www.buzzerbeater.com/match/29561226/boxscore.aspx, my opponent used ins iso off and out iso def. Keep in mind I played TIE.

His outside box and one vs my base offense: I'm not sure if the game thinks my PG or SG is my best outside player(they have very similar stats) so its hard to say which one he was trying to shut down. my PG had one of his worst shooting games 4-19. Not sure if it was the D or he just had an off game. my SG had an above average day with an efficient 8-14 shooting. The crazy thing is my PF went off setting season highs in just about every category. 31 points 21 rebounds and 8 assists on 12-16 shooting. got to the line 8 times as well.

Summary:
1. When I play base offense my guards tend to dominate the shots while my big men usually get less then 10 shots each. In this game, my offense actually ended up a lot more balanced.
2. I'm not sure if my PF just had a great game, had a favorable matchup, or it was due to the def tactic that he went off like that. I've been moving him around from SF/PF/C for training purposes so I dont have a solid track record for him. It was quite a monster game for him.
3. My PG and my SG have very similar stats so its not clear which one the game would make his team attack.
4. My PG couldnt hit a shot early on shooting 1-12 early on. He didnt seem to be jacking tough shots, but again its really tough to tell if it was the defense or an off shooting day.
5. MY SG had an above average game with an efficient 8-14 shooting day in just 31 min.
Final thought: If I attribute his defense for the PG and PF results, I would say it backfired. My PF more than made up for a down game from my PG. Again its only one game and there are a lot of unknown intangibles

His Inside iso vs my m2m defense: This one is the real head scratcher. His SG got off 27 of his 75 shots, dominating the shots by far. He got off more shots than all his PF/C combined (26). His SF/PF/C combined for 31 shots. Looking at the box score you'd think he played outside iso!

Summary:
1. his SG had one of his more efficient game of the season shooting 14-27 and 6-11 from deep. he scored 41
2. his inside game was not very good, but then again nobody could hit a shot except for his SG that game.
3. I killed him on the boards 66-31 and 24-6 on off boards.
Final thought: His SG is he best player and averages 30 points a game, so he did have an above average day despite playing an inside tactic. I was stunned that he took 27 of his teams 75 shots and how few shots his big men got off. Another thing to keep in mind is his guards are his best players so he was playing towards his weakness.

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177361.4 in reply to 177361.3
Date: 3/13/2011 7:03:51 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
612612
His Inside iso vs my m2m defense: This one is the real head scratcher. His SG got off 27 of his 75 shots, dominating the shots by far. He got off more shots than all his PF/C combined (26). His SF/PF/C combined for 31 shots. Looking at the box score you'd think he played outside iso!


that is because inside iso is an outside tactic. your players either drive inside or pass it inside and get off a shot or drag help defense inside to make open shots on the outside for you guards or even sf. if the defense doesnt come over to help then your inside player has a 1 on 1 with their defender. at least this is how i understand it from what i have read.

therefore outside iso is an inside tactic.

last time i remember playing inside iso my guards took more shots than my bigs.

Garrie Addison (18085302). The G-Adder striking blows since season 15