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Hidden Skill(s)

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183128.1
Date: 4/27/2011 5:17:17 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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Talking about hidden skills, we have an ongoing discussion over there on the German Board about a possible "learning ability" skill. Not focussing too strong on this one, but maybe someone could make clear what kind of and how many different hidden skills there are?

We heard alot about the "aggressiveness" skill players hold which determines how ofter a player will foul / might be fouled, I think we might agree that there´s a "scorer" skill, which determines a player´s willingness to set up high scoring / shooting numbers during a game (of course both have to be seen in a team-context and might not be too obvious if the player is way better or worse than his teammates).

Which kind of skills are there not beeing seen, and how many are there?

Zwei Dinge sind unendlich, die Dummheit und das All...
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183128.2 in reply to 183128.1
Date: 4/27/2011 5:19:53 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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In addition:

How are those hidden skills affected by the aging and learning process of a player? Are they solid numbers, not changing at all, or are the adjusted by experience and training issues?

Oh, and here´s my actual suggestion:

Rather than keeping scouting points over a season, each team should be able to invest it into scouting their own players, getting a vague insight in some of their own players intangibles.

Zwei Dinge sind unendlich, die Dummheit und das All...
This Post:
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183128.3 in reply to 183128.1
Date: 4/27/2011 6:04:58 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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aggressiveness does exist. it has been confirmed by BB's.
i think the impression of "learning ability" can be explained by "elastic effect" and willingness to shoot by player's experience.


Last edited by Rycka at 4/27/2011 6:05:19 AM

This Post:
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183128.4 in reply to 183128.3
Date: 4/27/2011 6:11:00 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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So players with higher experience do what - shoot more? I´m not sold on that

In my model of the skill system, experience positively affects both the hidden skills and the use of the "normal" skills, read: decision making. But I´m not all too sure there´s just that one "hidden skill" at all, and I´d like to delve a little deeper into that.

By elastic effect you mean the influence of other, "similar" skills and size to the training effect I suppose?

Zwei Dinge sind unendlich, die Dummheit und das All...
From: Rycka

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183128.6 in reply to 183128.5
Date: 4/27/2011 6:15:36 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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as he see that as the most logical way out.

and this is experience effect.

@seelenjaeger
By elastic effect you mean the influence of other, "similar" skills and size to the training effect I suppose?

yes

From: CrazyEye

This Post:
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183128.7 in reply to 183128.6
Date: 4/27/2011 6:17:40 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
and this is experience effect.


i woudl say that experience player would take less bad shot with lot of time on the clock, but some more medium shots with time running down. But overall that doesn't mean that they shot more often, but that there shot selection fits better to the situation.

From: Rycka

This Post:
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183128.8 in reply to 183128.7
Date: 4/27/2011 6:23:52 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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doesn't mean that they shot more often

i don't want to say they will shoot more with more experience. but manon said if you train JS way more than other skills, that player will shoot more often, because no one on the team will have better JS. you have to give an option for such player, like almost good passing as JS, or have a teammate as good as he is. there's to many little details to take into consideration, but i think theoretically, this is how it would work.

Last edited by Rycka at 4/27/2011 6:26:08 AM

From: CrazyEye

This Post:
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183128.9 in reply to 183128.8
Date: 4/27/2011 6:25:24 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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yes but that haven't to do with experienced ;)

From: Rycka

This Post:
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183128.10 in reply to 183128.9
Date: 4/27/2011 6:28:11 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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yes but that haven't to do with experienced

while experience influences his shot selection i think it's all about experience. when he will have low experience, he will for example make a bad pass, or decides to driblle a bit and turns the ball. while with a higher experience he would not make those bad decisions.

Last edited by Rycka at 4/27/2011 6:28:25 AM

This Post:
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183128.11 in reply to 183128.9
Date: 4/27/2011 6:31:49 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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I cannot back this up with huge data, just with "that kind of feeling", but on a team with all JS 14 / 15 and similar JR on the 1,2,3 positions, there are still huge differences in the amount of shots taken.

You can of course argue that it depends on the offense type and the opponents strategy and skills which player takes the shot, yet I cannot fight the feeling that certain players tend to take shots more likely than others, pointing at a "secret / hidden" skill of some kind.

I don´t think it´s the pure skill set - of course seen in context with strategy, teamskills and opponent - that determines how willing a player is to take a shot, but also that some players just have that tendency to "shoot more". Very much the same as it is with the agressiveness thingy.

Last edited by LA-seelenjaeger at 4/27/2011 6:43:56 AM

Zwei Dinge sind unendlich, die Dummheit und das All...