BuzzerBeater Forums

Bringing this up because it's impacting our nation very negatively, and I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of people of similarly-sized countries on the issue - and any GM/BB who'd like to chime in (hoping for that).

Within Japan, we have the top league (JBBL), and 4 div IIs. Two of the IIs (.3/.4) are pretty much completely bot. Div II.2 has 5 active teams. Up until recently, II.1 was around 14 or so. For reference, the JBBL usually has anywhere from 12-16 'active' teams.

The issue stems from that we've ended up with a very, very competitive II.1, to the point of where the last three promotees from II.1 are now ranked 1, 7 and 8 in Nippon. Currently in II.1 we have the 11th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 18th, 21st ranked teams in the nation. For reference, the top Div II.2 teams rank 17th, 24th.
The Great 8 is particularly stacked, with the 11th, 13th, 14th, and 21st teams all being there.

I understand that the majority of 'new' teams are going to fill spots in II.1. But this has resulted in a logjam of teams in the division, and has meant that we've had a very high turnover rate of players who do end up in the division. I think the average time a new player who ends up in II.1 is about a month (?), and given "most new players start in II.1" as a nation we're finding it hard to grow/keep new people.
Stronger teams in Div II.1 continually watch weaker teams from II.2 (and in the past II.3) promote.

I used to BBmail every new guy that joined, keeping track in both II.1 and 2... but I've stopped because it just seems so fruitless.

Now, we've just lost the #4 team in Div II.1's Big 8. The #3 team has been inactive for coming up on 3 weeks, and the #4 and 5 teams in the Great 8 are in the same boat. The #4 team is nationally ranked 21, and the #5 team is the most promising "new guy" we've had in 4-5 seasons.

Teams that are inferior are getting promoted, whilst there's a 5+ season waiting line for the guys who are in the process of leaving. Frustrating... and generally I've only looked at it from the perspective of those near the top of the Div., but it must be awful for those who are sticking with the game - but even lower in the pecking order.
So not only are we finding it difficult to keep new players, we're losing the older, established ones too.

A JBBL user recently had an interesting solution to promotion issues:

I think they should just change the bot promotion to be based on National rank rather than record & PD. If the ranking formula were done right (maybe as is) it should pick the team that has the best overall performance rather than just who gets the easiest schedule. If they do this then the best teams would move to D1 faster and the D1/higher divisions would be stronger.

Additionally, I'm not sure that putting all the new teams in the one division is the wisest course of action. Sure, I've been told it's so that there's a competitive division, but all that's ended up happening is there are 3-5 teams who are truly competing, another mid-tier who get beat up on by the top guys, but beat up on the lowest tier... and a group at the bottom made up of new teams who only stay active about a month.
I think having a greater mix throughout the lower divisions would encourage more movement up and down, and mean that newer teams have a greater chance for success, and therefore are encouraged to stay.

That's my piece, said it. Please, if you have anything to share on this, do so!


Thanks...

True.
But perhaps sometimes some manual application might help? Even a redistribution of teams...

I think that there playoff is needed to be adjusted for this issue;
The 4 teams who gets to the Semi-final will play a Final-game against a team from another division, and upon a draw.

But, generally I think that micro-nations should not exists at this game as that.
There should have been a "Eastern Asia Conference (EAC)" instead.
When one of the micro-nations that constitute this EAC will be big enough, than this EAC will be re-structured without this new "independent" BB-nation.
I believe that by that, we will see less users from BB-nations leave, and fewer users from other users being frustrated from the easier leagues those small BB-nations has (which make it easier to compete in the B3 for example).

Last thing - the GMs are not those who decides what will happen in this game. Their POV is equal to that of yours.
You are looking for the BBs ONLY.

Thanks for your input Pini.
Yeah, I get the bit about GMs, but I also understand that BBs can get pretty oblivious to the general day-to-day stuff. Only through the involvement of GMs can this even really get through (at least... I *think*).

I do disagree with the idea of a conference of nations. We have our own identity, and tho' we may be small - we are big enough to exist. I think that perhaps a different system of governance should exist, that's all. It's a difficult concept for a user from a larger nation to understand, but I think that if it were explained to the general BB user, they would understand that larger and smaller nations could operate under different systems. What's right/fair for one isn't necessarily right/fair for the other.

I also understand that BBs can get pretty oblivious to the general day-to-day stuff. Only through the involvement of GMs can this even really get through (at least... I *think*).

The BBs read every message in the Suggestions forum. Generally, they do not participate in the discussion, though. No GM input is required to get through.

You can look on those conferences like the European "Euroleague", or the NBA.

The identity is also kept at the Euroleague.
At the NBA, almost each team is from a different state in USA, and the identity is not an issue there either.
The identification of a BB-nation can be found at their national-team, which can be kept separated.

Yes, it will make the game harder, because more teams means more competition, but that is the idea on any game.

When the competition is fair, the game is good.

Another profit that can be achieved from this "conference" concept, is a more massive communication between users from different nations.
It is a good thing, especially between nations that are in some conflict with each other.

At the NBA, almost each team is from a different state in USA, and the identity is not an issue there either.

That is because they are still playing US teams and not like if you put Korea, Japan and Taiwan together that are three different nations.
And does not teams that play in the Euroleague play in their own nation as well?

And still, NY is a all different state than Alaska or California.
The same as Korea and Japan are different states in Asia.

The teams playing in the Euroleague are also playing in their own league, but still when they are playing at the Euroleague, they do not lose any "identity".

I'll repeat, just for you - Having more teams in a conference/BB-nation will make the game harder - more teams, the harder it is. But, it will make the game much more interesting.
Those who are here for an eBay-game, and doing nothing, will leave.
But all those who are here for a challenging BB-game will enjoy this game much more and join-in.

We can also add All-But-One bot teams for them..., this will do the trick for those...

I'll repeat, just for you - Having more teams in a conference/BB-nation will make the game harder - more teams, the harder it is. But, it will make the game much more interesting.
Those who are here for an eBay-game, and doing nothing, will leave.
But all those who are here for a challenging BB-game will enjoy this game much more and join-in.

We can also add All-But-One bot teams for them..., this will do the trick for those...

And I'll repeat: you're not necessarily correct. There are many definitions of "harder", and many different paths to follow. "Bigger" does not necessarily equate to "harder". Definitely not easier - just different.
Still, I'll ask: what experience do you have in playing in the smaller nations such as the ones that you are suggesting amalgamate?

And still, NY is a all different state than Alaska or California.
The same as Korea and Japan are different states in Asia.

This is incorrect on so many levels.