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Suggestions > Modify postseason economy

Modify postseason economy

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236874.1
Date: 3/3/2013 9:10:38 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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The idea struck me as a catchall for the various complaints about people buying monsters just before the postseason deadline, about the silly game design that encourages teams to try not to sweep a finals/relegation series, and the unfortuate fact that the postseason is too little about actually determining a champion and seen more as an economic event.

The idea is pretty straightforward:
1. Teams do not receive gate revenues of any sort during the postseason. Period, end of story.
2. Teams do not pay salary in the postseason for any player who was on their roster as of the All-Star Game.
3. Any player added between the All-Star Game and the playoff deadline remains eligible to play, but will need to be paid their salary each week of the postseason where the team has a competitive game.

Under these conditions, every team in the playoffs and those that miss out should all turn a moderate profit each week. Teams that want to invest in monster players can still do so, but they'll either have to pay those salaries the final third of the season or will have to take the financial hit of paying salaries without income in the postseason.

This Post:
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236874.2 in reply to 236874.1
Date: 3/4/2013 3:11:15 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
394394
I like the idea.

This Post:
22
236874.3 in reply to 236874.1
Date: 3/4/2013 5:37:37 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
16031603
Too complicated imo. There are easier solutions to this problem.

Größter Knecht aller Zeiten aka His Excellency aka President for Life aka Field Marshal Al Hadji aka Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas aka aka Conqueror of the Buzzerbeater Empire in Europe in General and Austria in Particular
This Post:
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236874.5 in reply to 236874.4
Date: 3/4/2013 7:48:49 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
I don't see how it's that complicated. No gate receipts from games is already in existence for the Cup, and the actual trade deadline hasn't changed. The only part that's in any way complex is the salary deadline notion - but it's a solution that immediately reduces any financial incentive to throw away playoff games and puts teams that want to rent-a-donkey for a playoff run into a situation where it's possible but far more expensive.

This Post:
11
236874.6 in reply to 236874.1
Date: 3/4/2013 9:55:49 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
12061206
It's funny, because this idea changes nothing.
At this moment teams, which hire monsters in last week, agree that they need to pay few huge salaries for these mutans. In Your idea they still need to pay huge salaries. So nothing changes. Therefore last minute mutants purchase will be not less atractive than now.
However normal teams, which want to buy normal player for long term strategy after ASW, will be penalized.
Hmmm... I even think in Your idea mutants purchase could be even more atractive, because these teams can keep their normal players for free, and they need only to buy few monsters, let's say two 150kish guards and two 200kish big men. Then they can use normal players as primary SF and backups for other positions, and 2x 700k extra salary isn't big cost for winning play-offs in 1st or 2nd division.

This Post:
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236874.7 in reply to 236874.6
Date: 3/4/2013 11:00:35 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
It's funny, because this idea changes nothing.
At this moment teams, which hire monsters in last week, agree that they need to pay few huge salaries for these mutans. In Your idea they still need to pay huge salaries. So nothing changes. Therefore last minute mutants purchase will be not less atractive than now.
However normal teams, which want to buy normal player for long term strategy after ASW, will be penalized.
Hmmm... I even think in Your idea mutants purchase could be even more atractive, because these teams can keep their normal players for free, and they need only to buy few monsters, let's say two 150kish guards and two 200kish big men. Then they can use normal players as primary SF and backups for other positions, and 2x 700k extra salary isn't big cost for winning play-offs in 1st or 2nd division.


Those are good points. I do think it's still an improvement, because in the current system the monsters do still cost money, winning playoff games ensures you also bring in more money from gate revenues to offset the salary. In this proposal, the monsters' salaries are a sunk cost - you're not going to make that up with additional gate revenue. Of course, if winning the playoffs and a possible promotion depending on your league level is worth that extra money, this isn't going to stop teams from making that decision, nor would anything other than forcing a ridiculously early trade deadline.

As far as normal teams buying players for long term goals, that is precisely why they are long term. And it's not much different now - if I buy a player I want for next season even in the postseason, if I am still in the postseason for the next economic update I pay his salary. It's not "punishing" users for their long-term plans, but rather rewarding teams for having players that have been on their team for more than half a season. ;)

This Post:
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236874.8 in reply to 236874.7
Date: 3/4/2013 11:35:39 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
12061206
I'm not sure You recognize practical effects of mutants trick.
Manager, who does it, has normal roster, 8-10 players with reasonable salary. Without this roster he wouldn't be able to qualify to play-offs. Then he buys few mutants and he has to pay salaries of normal roster and extra salaries of mutans. Only salaries of mutants are additional cost for him. The same as in Your idea. So in Your idea nothing hurts him.
However please note, that in most cases salaries of normal roster cost more than weekly gate revenues. So he can sell few of these normal players (what hurts his long-term strategy) or keep them and pay more salaries during play-offs. In Your idea he can keep all these normal players without penalty.
So I suppose in Your idea last minute mutants purchase would be even more atractive than now.
So it isn't good idea because effects are oppsite than expected.
And still this idea has few defects. If I buy player for long term strategy, then week, in which I do it, shouldn't matter. In Your idea every purchase after ASW is penalized, independently on purpose of player (only for play-offs or for 10 seasons).
So long term strategy isn't supported in this idea unless player is bought before ASW.

From: Ehud

This Post:
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236874.9 in reply to 236874.7
Date: 3/4/2013 11:39:45 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
274274
I like the thought. I like it a lot. But I do have to agree that it's a bit to complicated. Think of a new user... It won't make sense to him and it will be just another "not neutral" rule he'll have to understand.

I think we should solve this issue with drop in GS and Enthu as other managers stated...

But don't get me wrong - I'll have a smile on my face if your suggestion will become a reality.

"Did you miss me??? - "With every bullet so far..." Al Bundy
This Post:
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236874.10 in reply to 236874.8
Date: 3/4/2013 12:17:47 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
I'm not sure You recognize practical effects of mutants trick.
Manager, who does it, has normal roster, 8-10 players with reasonable salary. Without this roster he wouldn't be able to qualify to play-offs. Then he buys few mutants and he has to pay salaries of normal roster and extra salaries of mutans. Only salaries of mutants are additional cost for him. The same as in Your idea. So in Your idea nothing hurts him.
However please note, that in most cases salaries of normal roster cost more than weekly gate revenues. So he can sell few of these normal players (what hurts his long-term strategy) or keep them and pay more salaries during play-offs. In Your idea he can keep all these normal players without penalty.
So I suppose in Your idea last minute mutants purchase would be even more atractive than now.
So it isn't good idea because effects are oppsite than expected.
And still this idea has few defects. If I buy player for long term strategy, then week, in which I do it, shouldn't matter. In Your idea every purchase after ASW is penalized, independently on purpose of player (only for play-offs or for 10 seasons).
So long term strategy isn't supported in this idea unless player is bought before ASW.


I do understand the practical effects. As a general matter, a team that has a lot of money and wants to win using mutants will do so under any set of rules that allows them to do so. The problem is finding a way of making it unpleasant enough to do so in as uncomplicated manner as possible - and trust me, I'm sure I could come up with something far more complex and more targeted that would be even less attractive to discuss. ;)

I guess I'm just looking at the perspective that teams should look at the postseason as something where they are pretty much guaranteed to make a small amount of money without having to dismantle their team, but that if teams want to overspend late to supplement their roster, there should be drawbacks. This mechanism I still think has promise to do so, and definitely without argument does hurt a team buying mutants financially compared to one that stands with their current roster, but perhaps not enough to eliminate the mutant trick altogether.

As far as the long-term strategy thing, though, really? If you buy a player in the first week of the playoffs now and you advance to the finals, you pay his salary; if you don't, you don't. Same concept here: if you buy a player after the ASG and you advance to the playoffs, you pay his salary. If you don't, you don't. Of course, making the idea more complicated would be the option upon purchase to designate a player as "long-term" or some such which gives him the preferred salary status but renders him ineligible for the playoffs.

Anyway, I do appreciate your comments. I'm not sure this solution that I've proposed is ideal but I still consider it an improvement, but you've definitely raised valid concerns that would need to be considered.

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236874.11 in reply to 236874.10
Date: 3/4/2013 12:45:37 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
12061206
I do understand the practical effects. As a general matter, a team that has a lot of money and wants to win using mutants will do so under any set of rules that allows them to do so. The problem is finding a way of making it unpleasant enough to do so in as uncomplicated manner as possible

Problem is, that this idea makes last minute mutants purchase even more attractive than now.
It doesn't matter whether it's complicated or not, problem is that it works in opposite way than expected. So it isn't improvement.
I made successful "mutants trick" once in past and with Your idea it would be more profitable than now.