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After the suggestion from GM-Manon here (268489.16) and EGM-Perpete here (268489.19), I've decided to open my first topic on this bug (or Game Manual error). So here is what the Game Manual says:

Substitution Pattern
The coach will sometimes use his own judgment to decide what the proper balance is between starters, backups, reserves, and even players on the bench but not in the depth chart at all. You can set the balance between how much coaches use their own judgment or defer to yours with the substitutions box. You can use entirely your judgment (Strictly Follow Depth Chart), entirely the coach's judgment (Let Coach Decide), a mix between the two (Coach Picks from Depth Chart), or you can use your depth chart strictly until the 4th quarter, then tell the coach to try and win the game however he thinks is best (Depth Chart until 4th).

There have been multiple issues in the current GE where, after selecting "Strictly Follow Depth Chart", the coach is allowed to defy the orders issued by the manager and substitute players (who are still able to play) with others who are not set in the depth chart. In other words, in Strictly Follow Depth Chart, the coach may decide to NOT follow your judgment.

Now, since this is completely different from what the Game Manual says, it must be a bug or the Game Manual is inaccurate/wrong. If everything is working as intended, I urge the developers to amend the Game Manual to reflect that there is no option in which the coach follows entirely the manager's judgment. If it is not working as intended, I urge the developers to come out, say so and elaborate a plan and schedule for a fix, exactly as it has been done for the Blank Line-ups issue.

This inconsistency has been around forever, just as Blanks did. It is time we have a clear answer on it and the Game Manual is amended, if it needs to.

Okay, it's good to see a thread in the bug forum about this. Now Marin can clarify it and we can move on. Well done.

I guess we could change the word "entirely" to "mostly". Would that be enough?

If, as I understand, it's ok for the coach to defy instructions then yes, amending the Game Manual would be better. At least, every time a new manager comes out complaining that he can't get 48 minutes in a single game, he can be referred to the Game Manual and there it is clear that the coach is not meant to always follow the orders and the depth chart.

Then you'd have to change also the fact that if you have a 75K substitute to a 8k starter, the 75k will never play if the game score is close till the end.

Tbh if i understand that game facts (foul problems, injuries) cannot allow you to guarantee 48minutes, the striclty follow pattern is deeply bugged, and do not follow the game manual even remotely. So even 'mostly' seems to be a lie to my eyes.

Last edited by boule at 3/31/2015 2:30:59 PM

Maybe because we -at least I- are not discussing about 48 minutes a game but about substitution. No sub at all is a specific use of the 'strictly follow sub pattern', but not the only one.

My main trainee - home grown but for 3 skill points - is about 122 SP10. I suppose that i know how to train 48 minutes.

Last edited by boule at 3/31/2015 4:24:28 PM

We are discussing if the text should be changed, not if the game substitution code should be changed. I guess "mostly" will do for now.

So did i, and i said it wasn't enough.

I understand that your are not listening and will not participate any more on that subject.

Everyone has a right to express their opinion. I am listening, just not agreeing. The substitution code is what it is for now, imperfect and yet still it somehow works for most teams. Remember, this game was never supposed to follow all of the players wishes, in that case, we can just add a textbox for each player in which you can just insert the wished number of minutes and be done with it. It's supposed to be challenging.

Also, since the game was not designed to have players play 48 minutes per game, expecting to get those minutes is unrealistic. It's a trade off, just like with everything - you risk not getting the full 48 minutes per game but gain the ability to train better players (faster - if it works). You could train 5 guys in two positions, and the risk of not getting full (weekly training) minutes is much smaller.