BuzzerBeater Forums

Does the elastic effect mean a pop is harder to get because a relative skill is so much lower (is handling hard to pop because driving is so much lower), or it is harder to pop doing the same training multiple weeks in a row? If it is the latter, should I not be doing the same drill 2 weeks in a row then?

If a skill is much higher than a related skill, the higher skill would take longer to pop. The opposite goes for the lower skill. In terms of difficulty popping several weeks in a row, the lower skill would have a decent chance to pop 2-3 weeks in a row (in my opinion).
You don't have to train the same skill 2 weeks in a row. Whether or not you should train the same skill for consecutive weeks factors on several things. Did a skill you wanted a pop in not pop the previous week and you want to try again? What is the level of said skill in comparison to the other skills of the player?

It depends on relative levels. Each training regime has a baseline training speed and it trains both a primary skill(s) and secondary skills. Then there is the effect that the relative levels have on that baseline speed (a multiplier for each primary and secondary skill trained).

JS: trains JS as primary; HA/DR/JR or JR/IS as secondary
JR: trains JR primary; HA/DR/JS secondary
OD: trains OD primary; HA/DR/ID secondary
1v1: trains HA+DR primary; JSx2 or JS+JR secondary
HA: trains HS+DR primary; OD secondary
PA: trains PA primary; HA/DR secondary

IS: IS primary; ID/JS secondary
ID: ID primary; IS/SB secondary
RB: RB primary; IS/ID secondary
SB: SB primary; ID/RB secondary

Let's say you have a 18yo 6'6'' trainee with 6 skills everywhere and you train with a lvl 4 trainer:
JS guards/wings: 0.48 JS; 0.1 JR; 0.05 HA; 0.05 DR TOTAL 0.68
JS forwards: 0.39 JS; 0.05 JR; 0.19 IS TOTAL 0.63
JR for SG: 0.41 JR; 0.2 JS; 0.05 HA; 0.05 DR TOTAL 0.71
OD for PG: 0.51 OD; 0.1 ID; 0.05 HA; 0.05 DR TOTAL 0.71
1v1 guards: HA 0.39; DR 0.48; JS 0.39 TOTAL 1.26
1v1 forwards: HA 0.39; DR 0.48; JS 0.19; IS 0.19 TOTAL 1.26
HA for PG: HA 0.51; DR 0.41; OD 0.1 TOTAL 1.02
PA for PG: PA 0.58; HA 0.15; DR 0.15 TOTAL 0.89

IS for C: 0.46 IS; 0.05 ID; 0.09 JS TOTAL 0.60
ID for C: 0.46 ID; 0.05 IS; 0.09 SB TOTAL 0.60
RB for big men: 0.46 RB; 0.05 IS; 0.05 ID TOTAL 0.55
SB for C: 0.46 SB; 0.18 ID; 0.09 RB TOTAL 0.74 (note that SB has been boosted further and that's not captured in these numbers)

From this you can see that some training regime are inherently faster than others (1v1, which has the added benefit of training up to 6 players is the fastest and SB is much faster than any other inside skill).


What would happen if HA/DR/IS went up to 8 and the rest was still at 6 instead? This:
JS guards/wings: 0.55 JS; 0.11 JR; 0.04 HA; 0.04 DR TOTAL 0.74 (+0.06)
JS forwards: 0.44 JS; 0.05 JR; 0.14 IS TOTAL 0.64 (+0.01)
JR for SG: 0.46 JR; 0.23 JS; 0.04 HA; 0.04 DR TOTAL 0.78 (+0.07)
OD for PG: 0.58 OD; 0.11 ID; 0.04 HA; 0.04 DR TOTAL 0.77 (+0.06)
1v1 guards: HA 0.32; DR 0.39; JS 0.44 TOTAL 1.15 (-0.11)
1v1 forwards: HA 0.32; DR 0.39; JS 0.22; IS 0.14 TOTAL 1.07 (-0.19)
HA for PG: HA 0.42; DR 0.33; OD 0.12 TOTAL 0.86 (-0.16)
PA for PG: PA 0.70; HA 0.13; DR 0.13 TOTAL 0.95 (+0.06)

IS for C: 0.34 IS; 0.05 ID; 0.10 JS TOTAL 0.50 (-0.10)
ID for C: 0.51 ID; 0.03 IS; 0.09 SB TOTAL 0.63 (+0.03)
RB for big men: 0.51 RB; 0.03 IS; 0.05 ID TOTAL 0.59 (+0.04)
SB for C: 0.46 SB; 0.20 ID; 0.10 RB TOTAL 0.76 (+0.02)

You can see the difference although 1v1 is so fast overall that it's still the fastest regime at this point. However, the higher HA/DR the less this is true.

It depends on relative levels. Each training regime has a baseline training speed and it trains both a primary skill(s) and secondary skills. Then there is the effect that the relative levels have on that baseline speed (a multiplier for each primary and secondary skill trained).

JS: trains JS as primary; HA/DR/JR or JR/IS as secondary
JR: trains JR primary; HA/DR/JS secondary
OD: trains OD primary; HA/DR/ID secondary
1v1: trains HA+DR primary; JSx2 or JS+JR secondary
HA: trains HS+DR primary; OD secondary
PA: trains PA primary; HA/DR secondary

IS: IS primary; ID/JS secondary
ID: ID primary; IS/SB secondary
RB: RB primary; IS/ID secondary
SB: SB primary; ID/RB secondary

Let's say you have a 18yo 6'6'' trainee with 6 skills everywhere and you train with a lvl 4 trainer:
JS guards/wings: 0.48 JS; 0.1 JR; 0.05 HA; 0.05 DR TOTAL 0.68
JS forwards: 0.39 JS; 0.05 JR; 0.19 IS TOTAL 0.63
JR for SG: 0.41 JR; 0.2 JS; 0.05 HA; 0.05 DR TOTAL 0.71
OD for PG: 0.51 OD; 0.1 ID; 0.05 HA; 0.05 DR TOTAL 0.71
1v1 guards: HA 0.39; DR 0.48; JS 0.39 TOTAL 1.26
1v1 forwards: HA 0.39; DR 0.48; JS 0.19; IS 0.19 TOTAL 1.26
HA for PG: HA 0.51; DR 0.41; OD 0.1 TOTAL 1.02
PA for PG: PA 0.58; HA 0.15; DR 0.15 TOTAL 0.89

IS for C: 0.46 IS; 0.05 ID; 0.09 JS TOTAL 0.60
ID for C: 0.46 ID; 0.05 IS; 0.09 SB TOTAL 0.60
RB for big men: 0.46 RB; 0.05 IS; 0.05 ID TOTAL 0.55
SB for C: 0.46 SB; 0.18 ID; 0.09 RB TOTAL 0.74 (note that SB has been boosted further and that's not captured in these numbers)

From this you can see that some training regime are inherently faster than others (1v1, which has the added benefit of training up to 6 players is the fastest and SB is much faster than any other inside skill).


What would happen if HA/DR/IS went up to 8 and the rest was still at 6 instead? This:
JS guards/wings: 0.55 JS; 0.11 JR; 0.04 HA; 0.04 DR TOTAL 0.74 (+0.06)
JS forwards: 0.44 JS; 0.05 JR; 0.14 IS TOTAL 0.64 (+0.01)
JR for SG: 0.46 JR; 0.23 JS; 0.04 HA; 0.04 DR TOTAL 0.78 (+0.07)
OD for PG: 0.58 OD; 0.11 ID; 0.04 HA; 0.04 DR TOTAL 0.77 (+0.06)
1v1 guards: HA 0.32; DR 0.39; JS 0.44 TOTAL 1.15 (-0.11)
1v1 forwards: HA 0.32; DR 0.39; JS 0.22; IS 0.14 TOTAL 1.07 (-0.19)
HA for PG: HA 0.42; DR 0.33; OD 0.12 TOTAL 0.86 (-0.16)
PA for PG: PA 0.70; HA 0.13; DR 0.13 TOTAL 0.95 (+0.06)

IS for C: 0.34 IS; 0.05 ID; 0.10 JS TOTAL 0.50 (-0.10)
ID for C: 0.51 ID; 0.03 IS; 0.09 SB TOTAL 0.63 (+0.03)
RB for big men: 0.51 RB; 0.03 IS; 0.05 ID TOTAL 0.59 (+0.04)
SB for C: 0.46 SB; 0.20 ID; 0.10 RB TOTAL 0.76 (+0.02)

You can see the difference although 1v1 is so fast overall that it's still the fastest regime at this point. However, the higher HA/DR the less this is true.

These stats are very nice, but question, where did you get it from? So based on your stats if you are training u-21 players there is no better training than 1 vs 1.

Not necessarily. If you train for the 1v1 specifically you will probably start training primaries after 1 season of 1v1, because the ultimate goal should be to get the best possible build in the 21yo season. The same goes for lower potential players, you really should avoid HA and DR eating your cap and focus on more beneficial skills.

To answer your question all the information is available in Coach Parrot and reflects the coefficients that were calculated with the US offsite project.

Specifically here I used the Calculators page and did things mostly manually. Most of the information is in the Coefficients page although the whole spreadsheet is not the easiest to navigate. Props to Jozef Ka for building it, but if I was him I would have named cell ranges for my own sanity!

So when do we stop training 1v1

A player who can score anyway. (SG/SF)

I'm training multiple 18-21's year olds for my team, thats why I ask. I just want a team full of shooters.