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Those minutes should be fine for them.
If you need them to play you can, but it will not give you any benefits with the GS in my opinion.

Best regards.

I don't think 53 is enough for a 9 stamina player. I'd go closer to 70 if not over. Besides it's not good to ping pong between 70+ and 50 from one week to the next and he'll be struggling to keep a 9 Stamina starter below 70 in competitive games.

They did change GS to take into account stamina when they removed blanks.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 5/9/2018 7:25:29 AM

I don't think 53 is enough for a 9 stamina player. I'd go closer to 70 if not over. Besides it's not good to ping pong between 70+ and 50 from one week to the next and he'll be struggling to keep a 9 Stamina starter below 70 in competitive games.

They did change GS to take into account stamina when they removed blanks.

Why you think so mate? You have any arguments for this or it's just a theory, one of a lot from BB users? Can you give me a link for that?

Ideal minutes for a good GS are between 48 and 75, if the player have higher stamina, he can play a bit more minutes to stay or get in a good GS. That doesn't mean that it is better for him to play 75 mins then 50.

Aim to play each player between 48 and 75 minutes each week and you should see game shape staying on Strong or Proficient each week. There is a random factor involved in game shape though, and so you can play less than 48 minutes or more than 75 minutes and still get a pop up in game shape, however, it is much less likely. Similarly, you can play between 48 and 75 minutes and get a drop in game shape due to the random factor, but most weeks your game shape will be good.

In the end, GS is a mysterious thing in one way, you need a bit luck.

Cheers!

BBs did say that GS had been linked to ST so that higher ST players had more tolerance to high minutes. I'm not going to look that up, because I'd have to do multiple google searches with the possibility that I will still not find it. You'll have to take it at face value or wait for some good soul to link the right thread.

My understanding of GS is the following:
- there is a sweet spot for each ST level. This sweet spot gives you the highest chance of a GS increase. In the past there was only one as ST was not factored in and I believe it was somewhere around the 60 minute mark
- higher ST players now have a higher sweet spot and lower ST players have a lower one
- on Friday you get a random factor thrown in and the new GS is calculated. Normally being at the sweet spot ensures the highest probability that GS won't get worse
- it's anecdotal but it appears that multiple weeks factor in the calculation. And it appears that some kind of stability may be better than ups and downs. If this is true, 70>70>70 should be better than 60>80>70, but as I said there is no proof of this.

So yes, if I have a high ST player I'd try to stay around 70 even when I get garbage time.

Another thing to factor in is the massage specialty. This is meant to make penalties for high minutes less punitive. I don't know how this works for high ST players. In other words I don't know if this brings down the minute count in the GS calculation and at which level it has a significant impact.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 5/9/2018 1:05:12 PM

I said that too, that's fine but... that doesn't mean that a player with higher ST will have a better GS when he play 75 then 48 minutes, that mean just that he can play a bit more mins then usual to have a good GS. Bit over 75.

As it is written, ideal is between 48 and 75, that mean that the minutes between those are equal. With higher stamina you can get a bit over those 75 and still be in that ideal circle.

The other part of your post is just your understanding of GS, and I respect that, but that is not in written in any rule, guide or etc.

About the massage specialist.

Massage: Players who play too many minutes in a given week will not experience as severe a drop in game shape.

It clearly prevents your player to drop hard in GS if he played too much.

In other words I don't know if this brings down the minute count in the GS calculation and at which level it becomes significant.

I think you are misunderstanding here. It's guaranteed there is a sweet spot, all they are telling you in the Manual is that the sweet spot is somewhere between those 2 numbers and if you stay within that range chances are your GS will not get worse. They will not give you the exact number of course, just a range within which you are going to do ok, but within that range some values are better than others. 48 is not the same as 60 or 75.

And the average point in that range is of course 61.5 so that's a good point to try and get to, especially if there is no downside (ie. you set the players to play the 12 minutes of garbage time, so barring an injury they won't overplay and even if they do 73 is probably as good as 53). However since ST is now coming into play it's reasonable to assume that for 1 ST the sweet spot will be closer to 48 and for 10 ST it will be closer to 75.

About the massage specialist.

Massage: Players who play too many minutes in a given week will not experience as severe a drop in game shape.

It clearly prevents your player to drop hard in GS if he played too much.

I know what it does, I've had one on both teams most of the time.

My question is really in respect of high stamina players. After they changed GS to be affected by ST, could the Massage specialist be detrimental to GS? Say I get 75 minutes on a 9 ST player. Maybe that's his sweet spot, but because the minutes are 'high' does the Massage doctor come into play? What about 78 or 80 minutes, that's probably still good for a 9 ST player and that's outside the suggested range.

The questions are:
- does massage come into play only if minutes are above a certain level or it affects all levels but it's not noticeable at lower levels?
- how does it work exactly: does it reduce the minutes to a lower level if they are too high before the calculation OR does it reduce the GS drop IF there is both a high minute mark and a GS drop?

If it's the latter it's fine, there is never any downside. If it's the former and it affects the GS calculation directly then it may have some downsides.

Funnily enough the first time I went to the finals in D1 I had switched to a normal doctor 2 weeks before and ended up with 9 or 10 players in Proficient GS in the last week without GS training. I still like to have the Massage specialty as insurance in case something goes wrong.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 5/10/2018 4:44:47 AM

I don't think I can misunderstand something in this simple sentence

Aim to play each player between 48 and 75 minutes each week and you should see game shape staying on Strong or Proficient each week.

(144856.10) - source - Guide To BuzzerBeater + FAQ

There is nothing written like a sweet spot or anything similar like that, I have never seen it? It's just a story from users.

How did you conclude that some values are better then others. How did you conclude from it that 48 is not the same as 60 or 75?
I would really love to learn that. Any link, rule, guide, FAQ, anything?

"And the average point in that range is of course 61.5 so that's a good point to try and get to"
I must just repeat it, there is nowhere written that ideal is an average point between 48 and 75, it's just minutes between 48 and 75, there is no average word there

The specialist will just help your player not to drop his GS if he played too many mins.

I made my own research based on my club, U21 and NT team that I lead like 16 seasons.
Players respond every time different to their minutes, because there is random involved there, 48 is enough, just like 50-60-70-75 minutes, with a high stamina he can play 80, but it will not benefit him more then if he played 48.

We could see that often on players under 21y or in U21, they play often just 1 full game in a week 48+ minutes (to get full training minutes) and that's all. They have "never" problems with GS, in the other hand, there are always players who play ideal minutes based on your opinion, and they stuck at GS lvl 7 or 8.. everything is possible with GS, but as the BB-s said, simple, ideal is between 48 and 75, and yes, all those minutes between are ideal.

We could see that often on players under 21y or in U21, they play often just 1 full game in a week 48+ minutes (to get full training minutes) and that's all.

Those players don't have 9 or 10 ST like NT players. Also there is the consistency of minutes over weeks which I did mention. 48>48>48 is better than 48>68>48, but as I said it's MORE of a reason to give high ST players MORE minutes: what's going to happen next week without a garbage time game? Will you manage to give him low 50 minutes again? I don't think so.

I've had double pops on players who played 36 minutes (and 0 the previous 2 weeks). Do I think it's relevant to this discussion? No.

I must just repeat it, there is nowhere written that ideal is an average point between 48 and 75, it's just minutes between 48 and 75, there is no average word there

Neither does it say that 48 or 75 is the same. So we're back to square one. You keep your view on this, but you shouldn't go around saying your interpretation of the English game manual is correct when you have no case just by looking at the wording, you have no proof or even anecdotal evidence of it being correct.

The way all other formulas work in this game it makes no sense that being at 48, 60 or 75 minutes is irrelevant to GS. And the fact that GS is impacted by ST (as stated by BBs) pretty much guarantees this because either the whole range is different for different levels of stamina (that would be the logical conclusion from your view) or different levels of stamina have a different sweet spot within the range indicated in the manual (which is my view).

Perhaps we should ask a BB or EGM to make it clear that 48, 60 and 75 are not equally likely to result in the same GS update. So that there are no misunderstandings.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 5/10/2018 7:35:51 AM