BuzzerBeater Forums

Hi, Im returning to this game after a while and Im planning to train bigs starting next season. Last time I've been here, I saw that there's a plan on how to train bigs in order to maximize their potential (elasticity efffects). Can you share one please?

I guess it went smth like this: first you traning 1v1, then ID and so on, that way high DR, HA and ID push other skills when you train them. Is that right? Thanks

Last edited by Kukurucs at 8/25/2020 1:13:46 PM

Training plans vary depending on what you’re working with. But generally, training 1v1 G is a good start. Provides a better boost to JS and HA compared to 1v1 F. If your trainee has MVP+ potential you’ll want to hit OD and PA as well. So the increased HA from 1v1 G will give a nice elastic effect to those skills cutting down the time devoted to training out of position. You want the elastic linked skill at least three levels higher. So for a good elastic effect when training OD or PA, you’d want HA at least three levels higher.

Apart from 1v1 G, the only other general go-to is training ID first when it comes to big skills. But some players opt rotate ID with SB rather than straight ID. The rest comes down to what your preference is for the end result.

You really shouldn't push JS, unless you train for the NT and even then it's debatable. JS adds a lot of salary and takes cap space, which should really go into primaries. The elastic effect of JS on IS is just not worth the extra salary and the lower primaries.

the smart way to train a big man is to punt (keep as low as possible) one of the 4 inside skills and control JS. You can punt any of the 4 skills but generally the more common is SB. IS is also easy to punt. ID and RB largely depend on the level of competition and whether you plan to feature the player at PF or C. I would never punt RB and ID is effectively almost impossible to punt.

Also I would start with 1v1 forwards not guards unless the player truly has garbage initial JS. Then OD and JR (if needed). You may want to get PA to 7 or more at this point also. The order you train inside skills will have have very little impact on the speed. Typically you'd want to train the fastest skill of the 3 you are going for, however you need to keep in mind secondary training and the impact it has on the skill you are punting. For example, if you are punting SB ID might be the fastest training skill, however there is no reason to start training inside skills with ID, because ID also trains SB and you don't want that. It's better to train IS first so that, via elastic effect, it will speed up ID compared to SB in relative terms.

For big men, salary and cap management is the name of the game.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 8/25/2020 7:54:44 PM

Like I said, training plans vary depending on what you're working with. If he has allstar/perennial then by all means run a generic rotation. There would be no reason to go near OD or PA training with those potentials either. But if the end result is a C, JS barely effects the cap. PF is another story, but you need JS there.

Nah, you are being extremely disingenuous and/or providing incorrect information. I never said the player should be in the C formula. A C is a C even if he's in the PF formula and, sure enough, if you train his JS as you suggested, he will be in the PF formula and it will have an effect on the cap: we may agree it's not as big a problem as the salary cost for a skill you hardly need at the position, but it's still a problem nonetheless.

Would you rather have this guy https://i.imgur.com/j7iRCCo.png (PF formula) or this guy https://i.imgur.com/ke2hBVp.png (C formula). And for the record the first guy with the JS of the second would be like this https://i.imgur.com/Rj31MHj.png. Cheaper, like over 400k a season cheaper. I used ATG potential to illustrate the point in terms of cap, but this works at every level of potential.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 8/26/2020 5:29:46 AM

I'm providing an estimate on the cap impact of JS at the C and PF positions. You appear to disagree which is fine since neither of us can definitively prove our side. I could do without the first sentence you wrote though since it was rude and unnecessary.

Neither can prove!? What are you talking about? I provided actual examples to prove what I said is correct, if you think you are not disingenuous and misleading regarding JS, you are welcome to do the same and explain how your suggestions and opinions make any sort of sense. Until then, this is the only reasonable and fair assessment of your posts for me.

Rather than providing incorrect information, it would have been better not to provide any information at all. The claim that 1v1 guards trains HA faster than 1v1 forwards is also unsupported by the data and therefore incorrect. The suggestion that the OP should train ID first disregards both the fact that the training speed of various inside skills depends on their relative value to one another and the fact that the order in which you train the skills has an impact on salary/cap due to the (unwanted) training of the skill you are trying to punt. SB also has a higher baseline training speed than ID.

Looking closely, there was not a single correct or reasonable opinion in your post...

Last edited by Lemonshine at 8/27/2020 5:40:38 AM

You provided examples assuming where a potential big trainee would start and just ran with it. Not everyone hits a respectable JS big. Normally the skill is far lower. You don't need to go balls-to-the-wall on training it.

The claim that 1v1 guards trains HA faster than 1v1 forwards is also unsupported by the data and therefore incorrect.

The data I reference does support that. Simply because you don't use it does not automatically make it incorrect.

The suggestion that the OP should train ID first disregards both the fact that the training speed of various inside skills depends on their relative value to one another and the fact that the order in which you train the skills has an impact on salary/cap due to the (unwanted) training of the skill you are trying to punt. SB also has a higher baseline training speed than ID.

Training ID first was assuming all things being equal. And it's usually trained first (and just in case you missed it...assuming all things being equal) because it has an elastic effect with all other inside skills. And as for your point about SB training I'm not certain why it's relevant. I simply mentioned other users have rotated back-and-forth with that and ID.

Furthermore, you really need to understand that BB is a shrinking community with a low level of forum participation. Having the same handful of users berate and demean others in every thread isn't helping.

You provided examples assuming where a potential big trainee would start and just ran with it.

What are you talking about? I provided an example appropriate for the Potential of the player (HoF). You have the same situation for lower salary players, with lower skills and lower potential. THAT is precisely what happens if you train 1v1 guards. And guess who (correctly) didn't train 1v1 guards for his trainees, but preaches that on forums? (46913608)

The data I reference does support that

Are you serious? Do you wanna try to plot those HA lines in the same chart with the same scale? You can't because that's wozzvt old data isn't it? You don't have the raw numbers nor the statistical significance of wozzvt first estimate and the update he did later on.

because it has an elastic effect with all other inside skills

do you understand that elastics is less important for inside skills than for outside skills because each inside skill is influenced by and trains other inside skills? It's not just ID...ID/RB/SB are all pulled and train 2 other inside skills and IS is pulled and trains JS and ID.

Everything being equal ID should never be trained before SB and it's ill-advised to train it before IS. I already explained that SB is the fastest training inside skill and you need a gap of 2-3 for ID to become as fast as SB. SB also trains ID and RB as secondary training, so not only it's faster but there is no waste. If you punt SB, the difference between starting with IS, RB and ID is limited, but, once again, ID trains SB which is precisely the skill you are trying to avoid, so what you want is the highest possible elastic effect on ID and the lowest on SB before you train ID.

you really need to understand that BB is a shrinking community with a low level of forum participation. Having the same handful of users berate and demean others in every thread isn't helping

It's amusing that somehow you believe that providing and insisting on wrong and incorrect information from start to finish in a help thread is going to do wonders for the community.

Get your facts straight and give the correct information and nobody will take exception. I have not tried to demean you, I simply noted that everything you wrote in this thread is either wrong, illogical or questionable.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 8/27/2020 8:25:11 PM