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I am trying to bring up a possible huge problem for the game here.
Namely, in my league (First League of Serbia) but I am sure it happens in many other leagues as well, there has been a lot of private mails going around with offers that both teams play TIE in a game so that they would still play on the same level and get their enthusiasm higher for the future games. This obviously makes perfect sense for the teams involved, and I know it is kind of legal because they are not breaking any rules, but on the other hand, makes other people loose interest for the game!

I think the main problem here is that we all can see the enthusiasm level of our opponent in the match report. The players that make those kind of offers can have the information if they have been tricked eventually or if their master plan went smooth at the end.
By taking off this information from the report no one would dare offering such kind of things to the opponent because they couldn't be sure if the opponent really played TIE as agreed or not.

I'd like to hear everyone's opinion about this problem, especially what the GM's think about this of course?

Last edited by prosiri at 6/29/2008 6:27:52 AM

i think this depends on how each teams accept the offer,

sometimes tie also makes you have the option of just playing second stringers than the first 5 just to have better chance in getting minutes for training.

its something going around the league but it also depends on how its accepted. dont threat it as something as a trend, just as a strategy of thinking ahead.

now teams who accepted and it was played as said and lose, i dont think its a trick but as a sacrificial lamb to recieve what was hoping to be gained like minutes for backups.

now if the offer was tie and you been trick this is another story, but to have everything as a complain and to be reprimanded of that actions seems like a child crying over spilled milk.

what i mean is you took the gamble of hoping he would live up to his word, as like the dog bite the hand that feed it then i guess its part of life,

there are things bbs or gm cant control and that is this mutual understanding of what actions to be done. as i said if he offers a tie check first if you know how or why he offered that thenyou can easily see reasons.

taking tie offers for me is a risk of players take rather than a thing as a criminal act, but if the bb would like to interfere with this then i think we can give them the bbmail that stated the mutual understanding and let them decide.

I don't see it as a criminal act either, but more like unfair or an act widely lacking sportsmenship.

If a mail comes to me that says:
"Hey, we are more or less the same strength, I guess we both plan to play normal. Why don't we both play TIE?"

If I realy planed to play normal, there is absolutely no reason for me not to accept this offer cause I'll be stronger for the upcoming games. But what do my future opponents have to say about this?

Again, I don't see any rule-breaking here but it is just very unfair towards the players that don't take part in such deals that it can easily make them loose interest for the game.

By taking off this information from the report no one would even dare offering such things! I mean, does it happen in Hattrick? No way!

Last edited by prosiri at 6/29/2008 6:55:02 AM

how about get rid of it in general and have enthusiam based on how your teams plays and winning streak and losing streaks. Or enthusiam came be like chemistry and see how your team is playing. I think ithe mmutual tie is unfair because in any game you would not tell your players to take it easy. Maybe you would make different subs or play your bench more. I just lost my last game playing normail vs TIE and was out rebounded by 20+ If your team is TIE i doubt they would be trying that haard and my starting center had 0 rebounds and he is a llevel 9 rebounder. The system has to many flaws in it and i for one thing it should be gottren riid of or changed completely.

true,

those bloody cunniving suckers.

but as i said its a gamble, if you think taking the offer is good then your gambling. to me if you got trick then its your fault too.

i remember mchale once did in a nba game, i forgot who that player was but it was his teammate during college. they were on opposing teams and in one possesion his former teammate having the ball and mchale was guarding him. since his a rookie mchale whispered to him " comeon take a shot i wont block you, make you look good" so he took the shot but mchale went over and block him and mchale again said " sorry i lied "

if this makes you lose interest in playing then dont take the offers, never. do it only to those who you trust meaning i do bvelieve you are having conversation with your co teams in your division. just work on that,

as much as other team tie i dont, because it wouldnt appeal to me since i dont have the talent to win in tie mode.

but if i ask for it, or was asked then i check if i could trust him to honor his word then i would take it or check his team if i can win in tie. i dont care much about enthusiasm because i have experience playing being crunch and me normal and i win at times due to talent, no matter how crunch time he play but iof your tactic and skills level are better you are a better team.

also if i offer a tie ill probably be 100% of doing it.

Last edited by Shoei at 6/29/2008 7:27:57 AM

I think that the TIE mechanism in general is a bad idea.

They took it from hattrick and I think it is going bad in hattrick as well.

There are few reasons for that being bad idea:

1st: as you said, it allows players to close deals before the game.

2nd: it has nothing to do with real life, I can't see any team that loosing a league game by 30 points and the enthusiasm goes up just because the manager told them to take it easy.

3rd: it makes the order of games too important, one can have three top games in a row while his opponents get to the games after playing a bot, making him underdog without any reason.

I think it have to go other way, the enthusiasm should reflect results while the TIE/CT can increase/decrease the impact. I mean if you loose a CT game you get really upset, and vise versa.

I perfectly agree with you. Something should be done do get the game closer to real life situations.
Enthusiasm depending on a streak of positive or negative results could be an idea but in needs to be carefully dosed since it could make an unrealistic gap between teams who lost or won a couple of games.
But having TIE/CT to increase/decrease the impact of winning/losing steaks can be an idea!

I'm still waiting for a GM's say on this.

Can't we just quit complaining about TIE? It is an option to do so, so just accept that as a fact. You take a risk by playing TIE and that's it. There have been so many threads about this already, you can keep on asking BB or GM's for their point-of-view but it has been said and done. If you have suggestions on how to change stuff post them in the suggestion forum. That's what it's there for.

I went looking for the thread where all this has been discussed before, but unfortunatly didn't immediatly find it.

In that thread BB-Mark said it was not against to rules to mutualy agree to TIE. He did not promote it! On contrary, he doesn't realy like it either, but it is not forbidden, and for now will not be forbidden either.

In the end it is your own community who decides for you if they like it or not. If the teams in your league decide they do not like it, the 1 or few teams who do like it will not have much support for their system. If ion your league many teams like it, and you think you can gain advantage with it, go ahead and join in... but as said here in this thread already: don't be amazed if the snake bites you once in a while. ;)

Perfectly clear. But I don't see really to much good behind having match approach stated in the report. I am sure that removing it would eliminate TIE vs. TIE deals and make the game more interesting, but if the "goods" that it brings are much more than it's OK to stay that way.

What are the real pro's of match approach being stated in the report?

p.s. sorry for opening the same topic in the suggestions forum, I thought other GM wanted it there.

There is 3 possible solutions for this problem...or "problem":

1...To remove variable called enthusiasm completely or to hide information about enthusiasm from game report (later is much more, if not only possible imo)

2...Leave it as it is now

3....Redesign that variable (almost) completely (this option requires large in-depth analysis) in order to be more realistic & fair.

Imo best solution is option 3, means that enthusiasm need fine tuning and adjusting...