BuzzerBeater Forums

Let me begin by saying; I like what BB is doing so far. Although we users demands many many things every day; BB is definately going the right direction. I was here from season 3 and can see significant changes and also see BB is not afraid to correct things.The BB economy back then was going to burst in a bubble and therefore some ideas needed to be implemented to balance the economy.

But after 2 seasons of implemented new rules; e.g. tax on sales and arena revenue and salary increases. I think its time to re-evaluate.

Just one thing thats not adding up for me is: Free Agents. Back in season 3 when user count was low; it was a measurement taken to keep good players in the NT and in the database. But now with user count going over 40000; it start to act as a drain; which inbalances the BB economy. Every week there players on the market that will decrease the average transfer prices. It almost reach to a point that coaches are not worth training Centers anymore to sell because its worth just mere a million plus after three seasons. I understand the growing user count and the numbers of Center trainers. Therefore there is no need to have Free Agents anymore.

The tsunami over Free Agents is causing a money outflow which is not coming back..As a short term measurement it was a good thing but I think it is time to consider the Free Agents to be remained bots if teams are becoming inactive.

I am expecting that BB might want to implement progressive taxation on Arenas.

Herewith a scorecard from my POV:
1. staff bidding: here to stay; if people are willing to pay 3 million for a level 7; than so be it.
2. sales trade tax: perfect
3. promotion bonus: good; but 1 million for promoting to top division is a tad too much in the current economy.
4. Free Agents: I see no reason nowadays as an added value.

Idea
1. Progressive tax on Arenas: to slow down the bigger juggernauts. Some are over 30000 and making decent money. But keep in mind we are just in season 7; can you imagine season 17?

I am not complaining but I want to share my view and see how others are thinking. Maybe there is a valid argument to keep Free Agents that I have missed.

Rijswijker.

Last edited by GM-Rijswijker at 1/22/2009 7:53:14 AM

promotion bonus: good; but 1 million for promoting to top division is a tad too much in the current economy.

I would think that the amount of the bonus determines the state of the economy, not the other way round

1 million translates into roughly 3 sell-outs of a decent-sized DI arena, and is not even enough to buy 1 decent player. Put in this perspective, I don't necessarily think it's too much.

1. Progressive tax on Arenas: to slow down the bigger juggernauts. Some are over 30000 and making decent money. But keep in mind we are just in season 7; can you imagine season 17?

Nothing scary will happen in season 17. It is one thing to expand your arena, but you still have to fill the expanded seats.

Last edited by GM-kozlodoev at 1/22/2009 8:57:38 AM

Idea
1. Progressive tax on Arenas: to slow down the bigger juggernauts. Some are over 30000 and making decent money. But keep in mind we are just in season 7; can you imagine season 17?

I'm not sure i understand your idea...do you want make taxes on the size of place,which gave more advantage to some people to other
for example a 10% of palace incomes with palace between 10000 and 15000 - 15% of palace incomes with palace between 15000 and 20000 - 20% with palace between 20000 and 25000 - 25% with palace over 25000
This could be a good idea...

I would think that the amount of the bonus determines the state of the economy, not the other way round

I meant more in relation to teams who have been in the top division only..and are not enjoying the million earnt. promotion bonus yes; but 1 million and with a bit you can buy now a Center with prolific skills...which I think its too easy money and a bit unfair for top division teams. I agree the promotion bonus was implemented then to close the gap between top divisions teams and the rest..I think the effects are shown now and maybe time to review the amount.

. Progressive tax on Arenas: to slow down the bigger juggernauts. Some are over 30000 and making decent money. But keep in mind we are just in season 7; can you imagine season 17?

i would say those progress, is limited from the visitors i wouldn't think that the div one team could get to invinite fans, and their fan base will stop growing.

And when you fill up arena with very low prices, it will take a while till the invvestment pays off, and even that isn't possible till invinite.

Edit: baout the free agents, i think you are right it ain't encessary anymore - so maybe this should stop the next season(s)

Last edited by CrazyEye at 1/22/2009 10:25:41 AM

I would think that the amount of the bonus determines the state of the economy, not the other way round

I meant more in relation to teams who have been in the top division only..and are not enjoying the million earnt. promotion bonus yes; but 1 million and with a bit you can buy now a Center with prolific skills...which I think its too easy money and a bit unfair for top division teams. I agree the promotion bonus was implemented then to close the gap between top divisions teams and the rest..I think the effects are shown now and maybe time to review the amount.

This is true, but we should also consider the following: it "costs", in a way, a full season to earn the promotion bonus. Teams who are in the top division already spend this season earning DI gate revenues, which are significantly higher than DII ones.

The corrolary of this is that DI team can afford to pay more salary than DII teams -- and the 1 million bonus is designed to help the newly promoting teams to buy the players who will eat this salary. That's why there is no specific monetary bonus for DI champions.

Last edited by GM-kozlodoev at 1/22/2009 11:12:39 AM

I agree that Free Agents are obsolete. Just why did you have to put so many aspects in the bucket...

Free Agents are a way of fighting inflation. I like a moderate inflation. Free Agents were ment to keep good players in the system. Not necessary anymore, it rather harms training benefits as mentionned. Let's say goodby to Free Agents and find another way to keep NT players from vanishing.

But all the other aspects...
Arena Tax would just be another way of draining money from the system. Syystematically you replace one drain by another. And then obviously it will only start a biased discussion (I like this tax but the other one is bad and so on).

Promotion bonus in my mind is dearly necessary, because very often higher ranked teams were in higher divisions from the start. And there was a lot of money to earn in higher divisions whereas lower division teams were kept at the absolute minimum to survive. Partially the promotion bonus is making up for another imbalance.

Sales trade tax is not a fiscal but a political measure. Therefore it is not really suitable for a financial discussion.

And staff system? Well, I will leave that to others.

I agree about the Free Agents, it's time to stop them going into the market. I think we've got a large enough userbase now. They are not needed anymore. I think the only exception should be made if a NT/U21 coach request the release of the player, as happens in HT.

About the center part. Training C's is indeed useless now, the salaries rise faster and they value decreased a lot the last few season. I will be happy to sell a 2x 12, 1x 11 C now for more than 2m. There is a huge lack of decent guards, the price PGs with some OD and Passing is skyhigh. A 11 OD 11 PS PG sells for 3m no problem.
I, however, think the market will regulate itself. More coaches will switch to outside training now, which makes sure the amount of decent Cs will go down and there will be more decent guards in a few seasons.

And I always liked the idea of arena maintenance costs, just let anyone pay X% per seat, where the percentage is different for any sort of seat. There might be a downside of this as well, maybe more people will trow the ticket price to the maximum to keep the maintenance costs as low as possible.

Last edited by BB-Patrick at 1/22/2009 12:48:40 PM

About the center part. Training C's is indeed useless now, the salaries rise faster and they value decreased a lot the last few season. I will be happy to sell a 2x 12, 1x 11 C now for more than 2m. There is a huge lack of decent guards, the price PGs with some OD and Passing is skyhigh. A 11 OD 11 PS PG sells for 3m no problem.
I, however, think the market will regulate itself. More coaches will switch to outside training now, which makes sure the amount of decent Cs will go down and there will be more decent guards in a few seasons.

about training centers,you can train a center with that skill more more faster then a guard with similar skills,and you can have more advantage in the short time
i don't want to take a question on if is better to train guards or Pfs-Cs,but you cannot say that training centers is useless...

It is, you train one on one for 1,5 season, add a few weeks of OD and boom you've got a 3,5m guard. You need at least 3 season to get a 3,5m center.

But that's a way other discussion, probably more about One on One training way too fast. I'm training centers for quite some time now, and I find it useless to see that my centers are pretty much worthless right now.

Economic wise (getting back on topic) it's better to train guards than centers imo, lower salarys, higher sell price, not really that much diffrence in training time, maybe a C trains slighty faster in 3 skills than a guard in 4/5.

but you cannot say that training centers is useless...

As Patjebono mentioned; purely meant ifor the sake of return on investment. Still definately usefull the case when you use it for your on team.

Last edited by GM-Rijswijker at 1/22/2009 3:37:08 PM