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game substitutions

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This Post:
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99209.1
Date: 6/28/2009 8:09:15 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
77
I believe there's still much work to be done in game coach substitution system. Sometimes in real life putting a shooter or a defender in the final seconds of a tight game can be fundamental to win. But i guess this is not the case here in BB when sometimes are seen substituions at 0'' or 1'' of the end of the quarter, specially when those players go back to bench right before the following quarter stars...

Also multiple substitutions are way too common.

Another thing i would like to point out is the excessive rigidity between starter and substitue satuts in game time each of them get. It's obvious that the first will normally play longer, but there is one basic exception.
For example: in my last game i had a substitute SG that scored 7 points (3 in 3 shots) in 2 minutes but surprisingly he went back to the bench right after! He end up socring the same points (in 8 minutes) as the starter SG (in 40 minutes). I chose "Choach Decides" as substituions option and the starter SG was also the substiute SF so it would be a good alternative to put the starter SG in SF a little more time, specially when the starter SF has a lower stamina (nevertheless he played 48' with the consequent worst performance in the end), and let the "on fire" man of the moment play at least little longer.

I wouldn't expect that game engine to be a "state of the art" simulation system just like a virtual Phil Jackson's mind (lol), and i admit it wouldn't be able to make the kinf of reasoning i wrote above. I'm just saying that this specific case shouldn't happen because is a very simple and straighforward decision: "when a substitute plays well, better than the starter, let him play a little longer."

From: Kukoc

This Post:
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99209.2 in reply to 99209.1
Date: 6/28/2009 9:41:23 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
13361336
I have noticed that if you put a player in a starter position, he will never field in any other position if placed as a sub there. If he has rested enough to return to the court he will reenter at the starter position. So assigning a player starting at SG and assigning him to sub position at SF, will never see any minutes at SF position.

From: Weakling

This Post:
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99209.3 in reply to 99209.2
Date: 6/28/2009 11:27:55 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
77
Yes, i was beginning to suspect that. That's the kind of things i pointed about the "excessive rigidity" of the system, which would need imprrovement.

What about that example i gave about the substitute that made a perfect performance and is benched a couple minutes after? Is this normal here in BB? I think i never noticed this situations happening before. At least as obvious as this. I was very surprised. Why would you think it happened?

From: Kukoc

This Post:
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99209.4 in reply to 99209.3
Date: 6/28/2009 3:27:53 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
13361336
I think the coach should still prefer the starters. You had 3/3 in 8 minutes. Maybe it was the best choise. Let's take it this way: If you're backup would have played for 16 minutes he would have had 3/8 and 3 extra fouls + 2 turnovers. In that case you would have asked why did the coach keep that sub in so long. Every time any of my subs play better than my starters, I think it's influenced by the opposite player (starter tired, weaker sub against him etc). I still think my starters would own my subs in a scrimmage game.

From: Weakling

This Post:
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99209.5 in reply to 99209.4
Date: 6/28/2009 4:32:51 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
77
One thing i like in this game is that every player, even the best ones, sometimes performe clearly below their average quality and other times better than they usually do. It's plesantly unpredictbul and realistic.
So i think coach's decisions system should also be somewhat more flexible and have in account the performances of both starter and sub in that particular game.

About multiple substitutions and weird timings such as 1 or 2 minutes in game, or entering in the end of the quarter to get out before the next begins... Don't you think is a little too common?!

From: Kukoc

This Post:
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99209.6 in reply to 99209.5
Date: 6/28/2009 4:37:05 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
13361336
Game and quarter endings are a bit of a mess. Especially close game endings. Fouls with full lineup change before FT's and back after the FT's etc.