BuzzerBeater Forums

I believe the GE is sophisticated enough that there is no one simple factor to explain a player's performance.

Amongst the good hints already given to ShohokuZ I added one I thought worthy.
As y2bulldog pointed out, it's specifically in the last game the shooting percentage was horrible and also a second game on the 4th.

This player is used as a back up and usually plays 15-20 mns a game. When his time on court goes up, his shooting % dramatically goes down.

I am not funny. Never ;) If his atrocious stamina takes no part in his performance when playing 61 minutes in one game then having a stamina skill is very silly.

Here is the player in scrutiny (9493696).

I hope it's now elaborated enough for you.

in my games the system is very silly normally ;) Normally the engine is intelligent enough to find good shots, so you could raise shooting percentages in making the other players shoot better, because he don't take the hard one.

Bad stamina normally has more the effect that he get changed more often.

The GE is not designed to find good shots :)
Based on skills and other factors, the GE will calculate if you have a good or difficult shot. You will sometimes take bad opportunities and it's on purpose. He is wicked you know ;)

Regarding stamina, the rules states :

Stamina : A player with high stamina will tire more slowly, and can be effective for longer periods on the court.

I interpret if a player is tired and not substituted he will be less efficient. It matches my observation and it's my opinion you can disagree with.

i have some player who nearly don't have an offensive output and just take the buzzer beaters or 1-2 shots in a full game ...

So if the system just decide if it easy or not, why those players don't take 10-15 shots like other player on this positon with the same tactic, instead of tacking just 1 which they hit with a normal probability + 2 buzzers?

I never meant the system just decides if a shot is easy or not.
It's the core of the GE to calculate the quality and the odds of a shot for each play. Do you agree on this simple statement ?

For your player, how do I know ? I am trying to be thoughtful, I am not trying to answer everything with no information and I am not pretending I can explain the GE from A to Z.

Maybe you see it in your team too, that "good" offensiv player take moe shots then medium or bad ones, but the shooting percentages is pretty even betwen your players(on the long run single games could have a great disparity).

So if a player takes above 20 shots, he is normally able to hit solid percentages. And not only the stamina, or maybe the stamina from the whole team who collapsed through the OT.

Who is taking a shot is dependant on several factors and being a good offensive player is one. Good offensive players tend to take more shots over a season maybe but I have lost games because bad shooters were wasting too many possessions. One tactical problem to solve is to "encourage" the GE to favour the best shooting opportunities.
The shooting percentages are not even between my players. I think a 10% difference over a season is a lot. It's not necessarily my best offensive players leading in percentage, again, many factors.

I don't think Chernobrov was bad during OT, he was bad right from the beginning.
I am not trying to understand his season % which is relatively good but why his % is so terrible in this game.
He usually plays 15 minutes or so presumably in mid/end QT against weaker or more tired players, it might help his season percentage.

y2bulldog calculated a 48.8 % taking away the 18/07 and 04/07 games.
16-33 in 119mn in 6 games averaging roughly 20mn/game against presumably weaker/more tired players.
In his last game as a starter, he struggles from the start against stronger opposition than usual, better/not tired players. On top of it, his efficiency dives quickly due to his bad stamina. And he played as long as 61 mns.
With a 'better' stamina skill relatively to the opponent C and the opponent team, his efficiency could have raised though the game.

I see you think he took 21 shoots because he had good shoot opportunities. I don't think so. And he was not the preferred solution in offense.
Amongst the starters and disregarding FT and fouled shots :
PG : 27 attempts in 54 mns, 1 attemp every 2 mn
SG : 14 in 45, 1 every 3.2 mn
SF : 24 in 50, 1 every 2 mn
PF : 15 in 43, 1 every 2.8 mn
C : 21 in 61, 1 every 3 mn
You will see by yourself that every back up player had more attempts by minute than Chernobrov. Apart from the starter SG, he is the least favored chance in offense. He took a lot of shoots because he spent a lot of time in the court, not because he was a good offense chance.

You will see by yourself that every back up player had more attempts by minute than Chernobrov. Apart from the starter SG, he is the least favored chance in offense. He took a lot of shoots because he spent a lot of time in the court, not because he was a good offense chance.

but he wasn't much weaker then the rest, so i you repeat the game, maybe he hi t good and the PG bad - this is random. But twenty shots aren't so low, that he don't get solid lucks.

Who is taking a shot is dependant on several factors and being a good offensive player is one. Good offensive players tend to take more shots over a season maybe but I have lost games because bad shooters were wasting too many possessions. One tactical problem to solve is to "encourage" the GE to favour the best shooting opportunities.

i think the ge is pretty good in it, especially when you play with really unbalanced rooster - like i do often in the cup you will see the star player take alot of shots. The assistent player, also take some hsots and they aren't much weaker in finishing, they just have to wait longer to get a look which is good enough that it doesn't hurt the team.

The shooting percentages are not even between my players. I think a 10% difference over a season is a lot. It's not necessarily my best offensive players leading in percentage, again, many factors.

they ain't even, but they often change even without offensiv updates ;) Sometimes player X has better percentages, the next season player Y has better percentages even if they play on the same positon and nealy the same time.

pretty weak scores also have weaker percentages because they take lot of bad shoots with clock running out, but if you follow the game the normal shot are quite normal. So maybe a scorer who could compete with his defender takes ten normal shots, and 1 with clock running out. The weak player maybe takes 5 to 1, and this poor shot are more affected of the normal scoring capability then the team one so there he is weaker then the good one.

So does it mean my player is lousy? Do I have to train another 1 or just train JS and Stamina?

Thx for all your previous answers

but he wasn't much weaker then the rest

So what makes you think he wasn't much weaker than the rest ?

so i you repeat the game, maybe he hi t good and the PG bad - this is random. But twenty shots aren't so low, that he don't get solid lucks.

I don't think he would hit good if the game was replayed.
I don't get you, do you think players shoot percentage is only random ? I am sure you don't.
You don't really know how good were his shots opportunities. The number of solid lucks is not consistent from game to game and there are too many variables to estimate if he had good chances or not. The only hint is his percentage and it looks bad.
I don't believe the number of shots attempted is only decided by the number of good opportunities for each player. Some players will take more desperate shoots than others because of many factors, for exemple because of a low xp. This player may have had a handful of solid lucks, we simply have no idea really.

i think the ge is pretty good in it, especially when you play with really unbalanced rooster - like i do often in the cup you will see the star player take alot of shots

I have a crappy but balanced roster. So has ShohokuZ I think. We may have a different observation of the game because we have a different experience of the game.
I don't have a star player who takes a load of shots. I rely a lot on taking advantage of the match-ups. It makes a difference in my games who will take the most shots and I try to influence it as much as I can. It's not only random. I understand the concept of the "looks" in each play.
I don't think "good looks" are the same for each player, some have lower standards. What looked to Chernobrov a good look was not that good, I speculate because of his combination of xp and the exhaustion consecutive to low stamina in comparison to the opponent C and team.
21 shots in 61 mn is like 10 shots in 30 mn. For a C in a LI, it's not much, he was avoiding to shoot, he didn't have good opportunities.

they ain't even, but they often change even without offensiv updates ;) Sometimes player X has better percentages, the next season player Y has better percentages even if they play on the same positon and nealy the same time

Well, but same position and nearly the same time are only two of several factors other than luck which influence percentage.

pretty weak scores also have weaker percentages because they take lot of bad shoots with clock running out, but if you follow the game the normal shot are quite normal. So maybe a scorer who could compete with his defender takes ten normal shots, and 1 with clock running out. The weak player maybe takes 5 to 1, and this poor shot are more affected of the normal scoring capability then the team one so there he is weaker then the good one.

No, I didn't notice weaker players take more shots at the clock. I think guards do and players with high DV.
I have all sorts of crappy players and a crappy OF so shots at the clock are a main feature in my games :p

You may feel your shot percentages were always even because you had a good team. I presume that a team full of 5 all legendary skills against a team of 5 all atrocious skills would never hit 70% of his shots. The GE would even it out.
If you have a team where players always find good opportunities maybe there is a sort of curbing on the best shooters that makes them have lower % and it looks like it's the same for every player. Just a thought :)

Do you know why he played so much ? Did his back-up pick an injury ? Did you play "Follow strictly..." ?
I wouldn't force him on the court until he is at least horrible in stamina. He can play as a back-up. Or as a starter if you allow him to be substituted but I don't think he will perform well.
A quick fix is to train stamina a bit but others disagree so read them. It's up to you to make a choice.