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Suggestions > Make shot blocking cheaper - tweak the salary formulas

Make shot blocking cheaper - tweak the salary formulas

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This Post:
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131326.10 in reply to 131326.9
Date: 2/15/2010 10:10:29 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
204204
the question is, if the multiplier is fair in comparision to the "power" of the skill if you nearly made any shot blocks you won't pay 40-50k for it, like you pay for skills who make a player actually stronger.


Some time ago BB-Charles said that Shotblocking is probably the most important defensive skill for a inside player, if you doubt that, than you are probably right. However if you are following BB-Charles point of view, than the multiplier should be about even to the other inside skills. A lot of people in the community think that training shotblocking or jumprange is expensive, simply because this is the last multiplier they train. If they train inside defence the last, I'm quite sure they would think the same about that skill.

But like I said before, salaries of inside players seem to be quite high comparing to their outside counterparts, that's why I think the multiplying effect of the inside skills are too high, and inside salaries should go down (and maybe outside should go a bit up)

This Post:
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131326.11 in reply to 131326.7
Date: 2/15/2010 10:10:43 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
155155
Blocking is just the fourth multiplier in the inside skills, the effect isn't much more than the other inside skills.


No, but when the skills get higher it can have a significant impact.

If I remember tonight, I will try some different things. But if someone gets to it first, they can do some experiments with the salary calculator. Try different skill combinations with inept SB and then with prolific SB. Then see how it impacts higher level players (for example, a player with IS/ID/RB at 13, 15, 16, etc).

Run of the Mill Canadian Manager
This Post:
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131326.12 in reply to 131326.11
Date: 2/15/2010 10:19:15 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
204204
Blocking is just the fourth multiplier in the inside skills, the effect isn't much more than the other inside skills.


No, but when the skills get higher it can have a significant impact.

If I remember tonight, I will try some different things. But if someone gets to it first, they can do some experiments with the salary calculator. Try different skill combinations with inept SB and then with prolific SB. Then see how it impacts higher level players (for example, a player with IS/ID/RB at 13, 15, 16, etc).


Than you are just confirming my point.

You should compare players with ID 4 and IS/RB/SB 14 and players with SB 4 and ID/RB/IS at 14 etcetera, you probaly find that SB is a lot cheaper thaan you think, you just blame that skill because it is the fourt multiplier.

I just compared these, with the salary calculator:

IS 4 ID 14 RB 14 SB 14 $38155
IS 14 ID 4 RB 14 SB 14 $35870
IS 14 ID 14 RB 4 SB 14 $38494
IS 14 ID 14 RB 14 SB 4 $70308

This Post:
00
131326.13 in reply to 131326.12
Date: 2/15/2010 10:21:38 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
155155
Than you are just confirming my point.


Nope, because you did not understand what I was getting at. Try this instead:

IS 14, ID 14, RB 14, SB 1
IS 14, ID 14, RB 14, SB 4
IS 14, ID 14, RB 14, SB 11
IS 17, ID 17, RB 17, SB 1
IS 17, ID 17, RB 17, SB 4
IS 17, ID 17, RB 17, SB 11

Now tell me what you find.

I am not going to get into a debate on whether or not SB is useful, I will leave that to Crazyeye. Let's just see how it impacts salary.

Last edited by HeadPaperPusher at 2/15/2010 10:24:14 AM

Run of the Mill Canadian Manager
This Post:
00
131326.14 in reply to 131326.13
Date: 2/15/2010 10:30:11 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
204204
Come on, everybody knows what the outcome is, but that is because it is the fourth multiplier. It aint the effect of shotblocking itself, it is the effect of all multipliers combined. That's what I just proved, and what this list will prove. If you change SB in ID you'll get the same effect. Don't blame SB because it's the last skill you train.

This Post:
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131326.15 in reply to 131326.10
Date: 2/15/2010 10:31:05 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
it don't depend on the when you train it, we have very good salry formulas.

if i train a good center from 7 to 10 in passing his salary doesn't move much, if i do the same with shot blocking the salary is increasing dramatically with a very sligth increase in blocks and blocking trys.

This Post:
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131326.16 in reply to 131326.15
Date: 2/15/2010 10:41:46 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
204204
it don't depend on the when you train it, we have very good salry formulas.


I'm sorry could you explain further what you mean with this?

if i train a good center from 7 to 10 in passing his salary doesn't move much, if i do the same with shot blocking the salary is increasing dramatically


True, but that rise is the case with all the inside skills and the effect (for a C) of passing is the same with all of the outside skills (until they get at a certain level)

with a very slight increase in blocks and blocking trys.


All my reasoning is made under the assumption SB is evenly or more important than the other inside skills. Just like BB-Charles said in another thread. And who am I to doubt the designer of the formulas?


This Post:
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131326.17 in reply to 131326.16
Date: 2/15/2010 10:59:33 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
with a very slight increase in blocks and blocking trys.

All my reasoning is made under the assumption SB is evenly or more important than the other inside skills. Just like BB-Charles said in another thread. And who am I to doubt the designer of the formulas?


they also made a 80k arena formula and wonder that there become arena bigger then 20k, or they made a total visitor cap with more people who like to buy expensiv seats and wonder that people use those capacitys and should i mention the blocks in the old system who lead to this try with nearly no effect(ok it get a bit less importance for small positions who was before very good blockers).

The experience shows other things, pretty few try(if all of them are shown) and even less blocks then with the old system.

if i train a good center from 7 to 10 in passing his salary doesn't move much, if i do the same with shot blocking the salary is increasing dramatically


True, but that rise is the case with all the inside skills and the effect (for a C) of passing is the same with all of the outside skills (until they get at a certain level)


the fine thing, is that you get better players while training the other skills, and you need those quality - SB is like passing in the importance or JS(which cost nothing, just for comparision).

it don't depend on the when you train it, we have very good salry formulas.


I'm sorry could you explain further what you mean with this?


Josef KA, made a pretty good table for salary calculation - so you could check the impact of the skills.

A webtool for clalculation -> http://www.how8.com/bb/index.php

This Post:
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131326.18 in reply to 131326.13
Date: 2/15/2010 11:05:11 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
152152
14 IS, 14 ID, 14 RB, SB 1 $ 58377

14 IS, 14 ID, 14 RB, SB 4 $ 70318

14 IS, 14 ID, 14 RB, SB 11 $ 108557

14 IS, 1 ID, 14 RB, SB 14 $ 24358

14 IS, 4 ID, 14 RB, SB 14 $ 35897

14 IS, 11 ID, 14 RB, SB 14 $ 88727

Now I agrea that SB multiply`s the salary for Centers more then any other skill but you have to taje in mention that whatever skill you will train as the last skill you will get that the salary will rise rapidly.

This Post:
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131326.19 in reply to 131326.18
Date: 2/15/2010 11:12:23 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
and if you put the 14/14/14/14 line into it, he would see that it was equal when you train a skill ;)

I would recommend that if you train Sb that you should do it in the beginning, to get positive side effect on training spped but this doesn't menan that it don't cost nothing because the small salary gets a big one in the end.

This Post:
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131326.20 in reply to 131326.14
Date: 2/15/2010 11:52:20 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
155155
Come on, everybody knows what the outcome is,


Ok, maybe everyone does, but you were not getting my point. I understand that SB currently counts less than the other skills at the moment. However, my point is that it should count even less. The weight given for its salary on a C is that of a primary guard skill, at least that's the way it seems to me.

Whatever you think of shotblocking, it is certainly a secondary skill for a C. Maybe it has some impact on the game, but to me it is clear that IS/ID/RB has more of an impact. Given a choice, I would much rather take the cheaper option here and go with the 15/15/15/1 guy. He is much cheaper and the extra $ for even 11 SB would just not be worth it.

In any case, I did not want to get into a discussion over whether SB is useful or not. However, I would like to discuss the imbalance in prices for Cs. Reducing the impact of SB on salary is one way to solve the issue.

Run of the Mill Canadian Manager
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