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I think the 5th place finishers should get a Tues scrimmage, with no gate receipts

First of all, I just finished in 5th. I am really happy to have survived the season, and that's thanks enough. But...

then along comes this really good idea and gets me thinking, ya' know, here's my team just sitting on their hands when they could be out scrimmaging and getting experience. Since they don't get a stamina-related boost for the extra rest, they may as well be playing. So I really totally like this idea of having that first Tuesday after the season dedicated for 5th place teams scrimmaging each other, with no gate receipt bonus, but training time. After the first week it can be business as usual. We all need to train free throws, sometime, eh?

If you are going to train Free Throws, then it should make no difference whether you play the scrimmage or not.

I don't think 5th place should get anything. They already get the gaurantee that they won't be relegated. I understand that you don't think it is fair that the 6th place gets a better draft pick, gets income from the relegation game, and if they don't get relegated end up ahead of you. But you didn't have to come fifth, if you would prefer to be 6th, then make sure you come 6th.

I also understand that if you are in the lowest division then 5th place is a bigger disadvantage because 6th place gets extra income, better draft pick and no chance of relegating, but everyone already knows that 5th place doesn't provide a benefit other than not relegating, so it is your responsibility to make sure that you don't finish 5th. This brings more tactics in to the game which is good.

Also, if you are in 5th place, simply train Free Throws or Stamina, there is no harm, you are going to train it sometimes anyway so why not now.

Ofcourse they do, but it's not exatcly a sure thing that when you end up 6-th you will not relegate. That's my point.

Ofcourse they do, but it's not exatcly a sure thing that when you end up 6-th you will not relegate. That's my point.

in most cases it is, because no team get relegated

Then its their own fault for coming 5th. Teams know before hand that coming 5th yields nothing, so if there is no chance of relegating, don't come 5th!

i missed get 6th one time my own, because i try to hard to get into the playoff and notice that an opponent already thorws his game away and the 7 th was to ar away to give him the "asshole" card(at least he would be happy about it). why such scenarios ain't possible in lower leagues, and the next question, is it really desirable to get loosing computions because beeing succesful sucks?

And even the difference betwenn fourth and 6th is often, is questionable because you normally get just one game with 1/3 income and even if you beat the often superior team away y still getting less money then the tea out of relegation.

PS: you posted it twice, maybe you could delete the first one ;)

PPS: Those teams who throw games away, screw also the rest of the competion in this league.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 3/10/2010 3:27:46 PM

Sorry I didn't mean to post it twice.

I think it brings a tactical side to being a manager. Does the team try and place 6th or 7th and simply get a good draft pick and play well enough to avoid relegation, or do you try and make top 4 and make the playoffs and have a chance at being league champion and promote, I think that as a manager you need to decide which one to do. If you try to make the playoffs and fail and come 5th then you shouldn't get anything for failing to make playoffs. If you try to come 6th or 7th and fail to do that then you come 5th as well. So the only way to come 5th is either to intentionally come 5th, in which case you shouldn't mind coming 5th, or you fail to do what you wanted and so you come 5th.

Teams throw games all the time, teams playing TIE against opponents they know they won't beat for example. Does this screw the rest of the competition in the league? Throwing games is part of the game and is a tactic that most teams use in some circumstances.

if i eman screwing games, i mean playing the third lineup with false positions against teams they easily beat - taking advantages of hopeless situtions in tieing isn't screwing up a games or competion because the outcome is the same.

PS: but they are also games screwed, who could be won but i think this shouldn't be the target of the game, if 5 teams in each division try to get the rigth amount of looses where the other 3 try to make the championship, and get sabotage from team who notice i neet a win because else i got 8th.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 3/10/2010 3:51:56 PM

Then its their own fault for coming 5th. Teams know before hand that coming 5th yields nothing, so if there is no chance of relegating, don't come 5th!

Well, it seems that this is part of the issue that some of the purists have with the whole 5th place issue. It shouldn’t be that teams really would want to lose games under any circumstances. The suggestion to allow an extra game for training so that, essentially, finishing in 5th place as compared to the relegation playoff teams, only means losing income for 2 or 3 games (and training for what could potentially be a tie-breaker game in the relegation playoff). That still isn’t the same as taking in the income for the series, but maybe that could made back the following season if the fans think you had a better season for finishing in 5th instead of 6th. And I think it’s a perfectly reasonable solution. It seems that for some folks, it’s now religion that 5th place must somehow lose out on something as a reward for not facing a relegation playoff. I’d rather see if there could be an improvement in this area where there are constantly threads being made to discuss it, which should be an indication that many folks aren’t 100% happy with the current way of dealing with 5th place.

And I wasn’t complaining above, I knew exactly what I was getting when I lost out on the fight for 6th place and finished 5th (I thought I mentioned that I was happy with 5th, but I guess that part wasn’t understood). I was just responding to what I thought was an excellent suggestion for what many see as a problem.

And I wasn’t complaining above, I knew exactly what I was getting when I lost out on the fight for 6th place and finished 5th (I thought I mentioned that I was happy with 5th, but I guess that part wasn’t understood). I was just responding to what I thought was an excellent suggestion for what many see as a problem.

I know you weren't complaining, my post wasn't directed at you, it was just directed in general to people that are unhappy with coming 5th.

Would simply receiving 1 extra game for training purposes make 5th place so much more desirable? Having a 2 game week isn't that bad, you can still train 2 players in 1 position, or 4 players in 2 position, or just do one of the team trainings. I guess I don't consider coming 5th that much of a disadvantage except in terms of income. 6th place gets more income at the expense of potentially relegating. 5th place gets slightly less money and slightly less training for not having any chance of relegating.

Like I mentioned, I don't think there's much of an advantage with the income since the lost playoff revenue probably comes back in the course of the following season. That's why adding one extra scrimmage for training would essentially make the difference between 5th and 6th place a near wash. The only remaining differences would come if a relegation playoff went to a tie breaker game, the slightly better draft pick, and the anxiety of possibly relegating if home court advantage isn't enough to help your team win the playoff. If that's all the difference there was, I'd probably never intentionally try to lose games just to fall into 6th place.

So, would receiving one extra game for training make 5th place so much more desirable? Asked like that, then no, it's not really all that much. But it may be a big enough thing that tips the decision for a lot of teams to actually not lose games and try to avoid a relegation playoff. So I'd rather ask the question... Would scheduling one extra game for training purposes be such a big deal if it may significantly add to the integrity of the game?