BuzzerBeater Forums

When they raised it to Strong previously, they never mentioned anything about bringing the max to just below Proficient.

Well it was pretty easy to figure out that the 18 yo max was 7.99. How else would you get a cross-pop in the first couple of trainings for the player? So announcing a raise to strong definitely didn't mean 8.00. Whether it was 8.99 or lower - I don't know. I have never trained a 19 yo draftee.

I am not against speeding up training

Actually I am against it. I liked it better 15 seasons ago but that's just me. And raising 19 yo max starting skill has nothing to do with increasing the speed of training.

Do you realize that you are commenting (as whining obviously insults you and I don't mean to do that) about a very minor tweak actually. My speculation is that the change will increase 19 yo-s starting TSP by ~2-3 points on average.

The change announced may also mess up training for lower potential players. Have they seen this? A lot of rebounding as starting skill for guards? Also reduce number of players that otherwise could be a defensive specialist (punting IS/JS). And list goes on.

We are talking about an increase in those "undesirable" skills that is equal to several cross pop-s, which are random and one cannot control anyways. Besides you are contradicting yourself. The RB on guards / SB on front-court increase was actually my argument (and Alonso's) as to why those players might actually become worse, not better. And you are now using it with your main argument being that they will get too good.

I have no idea how to respond to that last part, so if you think 19 yo draftees will be too good you are welcome to spend all your draft points on them. If you think they will get worse - scout the 18 yo-s. That's the main point of this change - to give us more options!

There are sublevels in skills for rookies. 7 can be 7.00 or 7.99. it can only be known after several training sessions. this means theoretically an 18 year old can have 79.999 (I'd add more decimals as it was revealed it goes on). So basically 80.

as for a 19 year old after this change, with proficient skills, that's min 9.00 and will be at 9.999. so the perfect guy will be something close to 100

Edit: I often see them at the start of every draft. A lot. Every season. We're still not counting those not sold immediately.

Again, I don't want to argue with anybody just talking about tsp. Tsp is =\= value of training. You have to understand that. We can skip theorizing where elastics come into play if we just go to final build and see the difference.

Yes exactly how you said it, there is sublevels but the difference between 18yo and 19yo stays the same, max 20sp. That is more or less the amount you get from a season of training. Personally I have never seen a 18yo player who has 10 times 7 as their starting skill nor 19yo with 10 times 8 as their starting skill.

In Finland alone, there has been ONE 18yo with potential 6 or more who has had over 61sp. And he had only 63. So every 10 season we get one player who is far from perfect starting skills. Maybe we are just unlucky in Finland but I doubt other countries get many perfect 70sp with 10 times 7 as their starting skills - and them being all perfect 7.99 in every skill is probably the most unlikely event in the history of mankind.

I'm not saying it's the same thing to have player with 10 times 9 all around the board and to have 90sp who has been trained for one season with 1on1. I'm saying that it's about as close to equal we are going to get.

And on average 18yo players will still be better. 18yo skills can be in between 10.0 and 79.9 (average 45sp) while 19yo skills can be between 10.0 and 99.99 (average 55sp). The average difference of 10sp is easily surpassed with any kind of training.

I would bet that U21 national teams will mostly consist from players that have been drafted as 18yo, though 19yo have a better chance now too, which will further improve the chances of smaller countries to get decent teams thus making the scene more competitive.

So sorry, not seeing any reason to boost 18yo draftees.

Wow, you have so much patience explaining, where it is no point at all.

Everyone with little bit of logic in the brain agrees with you, sadly all of them quited the forums because of endless pointless discussions, where everyone knows "better"

I am little bit concerned that average 19 yo might be even better than 18 yo...We had average 52-53 tsp 18 yo last few seasons, didnt counted 19 yo, probably ~60 average, if it would be between 52 and like 65 now or even 72, 65 in most cases at 19yo would be better because of secondaries and main, hard to train skills.

Last edited by Vilkai [LTU NT] at 8/29/2021 4:32:36 PM

Everyone with little bit of logic in the brain agrees with you

Wow, really?

Guess those back-to-back U21 WC and B3 titles were just a fluke, no logic involved there.

And those poor, brainless BBs... What have they done...

I welcome the change since the current situation favors 18 year olds.

1. In the drafts in my league I don't see anyone ranking 70 TSP 19 year olds over 60 TSP 18 year olds with everything else equal.

2. Majority (80+%) of 150+ TSP players I see were drafted as 18 year olds. This goes to 100% for 160 TSP players.

3. China NT only has 1 out of 17 players drafted as 19 year old.

But I get your point that the change done should not be too drastic. I believe that even with the new changes, we won't see 100 TSP 19 year olds. Otherwise, I would draft them over 18 year olds too :)

I second your opinion. Since the changes where 19yo's started having skills of 8, we've only seen a single player with 78+ tsp being drafted. I can only recall that he was canadian and subMVP potential. So I really don't understand the commotion here.

And it's crazy to me that we've been taking an example of a player with all skills being 9.999. Of course he's going to be better than the 18yolds. Player with all 8.999 is also going to be better than 18yolds in the long run. But come on? What are the odds of that happening?


100% there are different weights to roll certain skills, or they have different floor/ceilings according to draftee statlines. It's protected from being overpowered.


(49554111). Here's an abnormality. Most of the time we don't see such quality 19y olds, and lets make his 8's to 9's.
Now we have him and a 18yo that hit the same lottery with the 7's and that's been trained with a 6/6 1x1 for a whole season(+16tsp):

9/9 9/7
9/9 7/12
5/9 12/7
6/5 8/5
6/5 6/5

with the TSP of 72 vs 78. And guess what? In general, they're the exact same thing time-wise. Which was the whole purpose of this change. To simply balance out stuff.

Last edited by Kritulys at 8/30/2021 3:31:43 AM