BuzzerBeater Forums

BB Global (English) > Is Transfer Bidding in Groups Unethical?

Is Transfer Bidding in Groups Unethical?

Set priority
Show messages by
From: jimrtex

To: ned
This Post:
00
41073.11 in reply to 41073.9
Date: 8/1/2008 8:48:03 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
44
Why don't make unavailable the money till the transfer is really concluded?
With this simply rule we can avoid early bid and unfair bid wars.

The ability to use money from a pending sale adds a great deal of liquidity to the market. If you had a player who might be worth $3 million, your market would be limited to teams with $3M in cash, and would cut out teams who have $1 million in cash and a player worth $2M.

It would be difficult to hold off completion of the first sale, until the 2nd sale is completed, and besides the 2nd sale might be contingent on a 3rd sale, etc.

You could let a buyer take a loan from the bank. But you would have to have some way to evaluate your ability to repay to loan, either through ordinary revenue, or a sale of a player. If you could figure out a way to do that, you wouldn't need to have early sales. You could go to the bank and borrow $3M to bid on the player you want to buy, with some repayment schedule, and some of your players as collateral.

This Post:
00
41073.12 in reply to 41073.10
Date: 8/2/2008 6:27:12 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
11
Your absolutely right. What is wrong however is subject to opinion.

Keep in mind that I didn't say I agreed with the practice, but understand the purpose.

This Post:
00
41073.13 in reply to 41073.8
Date: 8/4/2008 4:19:36 PM
New York Jests
IV.30
Overall Posts Rated:
219219
the group made a valid point of it's not written in the rules and until it is, it's not illegal.


True it is not illegal, but the BBs can punish you for prior actions that occured within the old rules (see: "Day Trading Transfer Fee")

From: Pallu

This Post:
00
41073.14 in reply to 41073.3
Date: 8/4/2008 6:07:15 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
2525
I'm confused.

Let's say that 3BE3DA had $2M in cash, and then the bidding went to $3M. So he had to put a couple of players on the market, and his accomplice bids $1.2M on them (and we'll assume fair market value). So now 3BE3DA can bid $3.2M, and you can't raise.

So 3BE3DA has the player, $1.2 in debt, but $1.2 in receivables, for a net of $0.

So where does he get the money to bid on his own player? In HT, he wouldn't be able to bid, because it treats a self-bid as two separate transactions, where he is treated first as a bidder, and then as a seller.


I think you shouldn't be confused. You are right.

"Early bids" on players can help to have enough available cash/credit for a bid war. But once you have spent the money for a new player you cannot use the money again and buy your own player(s) back.

Therefore I think that the threadopener has misinterpreted the situation.

Let me add that I do find it surprising that it is ok to name teams in such a case. Wouldn't it be be adequate to discuss such an issue anonimously? Especially because it obviously is an open issue whether early bids are unethical or not. GM?

Disclaimer: no, I have not used this technique, I do not know any of the teams involved, etc...

Edit: the naming issue was not directed to jimrtex.

Last edited by Pallu at 8/4/2008 6:08:29 PM

This Post:
00
41073.15 in reply to 41073.13
Date: 8/5/2008 11:55:04 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
11
Why would you be punished for something that isn't illegal?

Further, I can't say I am surprised or disappointed. When you make a boat load of money like teams were and day trading is watered down. It would make sense the next possible thing people would want to do is group together to pool money to buy players that only Div I teams can afford.

I am not saying it's right, it's the spoils of success.

Last edited by Digging for Change at 8/5/2008 11:59:41 AM

This Post:
00
41073.16 in reply to 41073.15
Date: 8/5/2008 12:02:11 PM
New York Jests
IV.30
Overall Posts Rated:
219219
That was exactly my question when they charged your transfer fee on sales based on what you did over the previous 14 months. In the early parts of this season you were punished for having a high amount of transfers in the previous season. This week (or next?) will be the first week where the new Transfer Fee structure will only be based on the time after which the changes were made.

I'm not saying it was fair (it wasn't) but I am saying it sets a precedent where doing "unethical things" (by the "community" standards) can be punished with rules that account for previous actions.

This Post:
00
41073.17 in reply to 41073.16
Date: 8/5/2008 12:09:01 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
11
Agree, but define what is "unethical", would you consider day trading and mutual ties unethical?

This Post:
00
41073.18 in reply to 41073.17
Date: 8/5/2008 1:23:37 PM
New York Jests
IV.30
Overall Posts Rated:
219219
Day trading - No
Mutual TIE - Yes probably

Again, it is not what I think, it is not even what the BBs think. They seem to take the pulse of the community as a whole and act on it. When threads started popping up saying Day Trading was ruining the "market," they acted on it.

But the point I was trying to make is that it doesn't matter what is thought to be ethical now or against the rules now as they may punish it in a month.

This Post:
00
41073.19 in reply to 41073.1
Date: 8/5/2008 7:47:58 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
155155
I'm still trying to figure out what the issue is. Please clarify because maybe I missed something.

As far as I can tell, 3BE3DA sold 4 players so he could buy a player for 6 million+. He did not rebuy the players as you suggest.

The players were all sold around the same time but I don't see why that would be an issue.

Run of the Mill Canadian Manager
This Post:
00
41073.20 in reply to 41073.19
Date: 8/5/2008 8:13:05 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
458458
I believe the issue, whether it happened in jbmcrock's example or not, is whether it is wrong or not that more than one manager act together to pool money so one of them can purchase a player who would otherwise be out of their price reange.


Once I scored a basket that still makes me laugh.
This Post:
00
41073.21 in reply to 41073.20
Date: 8/5/2008 8:17:33 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
155155
I believe the issue, whether it happened in jbmcrock's example or not, is whether it is wrong or not that more than one manager act together to pool money so one of them can purchase a player who would otherwise be out of their price reange.



As far as I can tell, the situation that jbmcrock mentions can't happen. If you're selling a player you can't use the proceeds to bid on a player and then re-bid on the player that you're selling. The cash is counted so it can't happen.

Unless this thread is:
1) To report a bug that the cash is not being counted correctly

or

2) About people who are bidding too high for their friend's players

I just don't see the ethical issue here.

Run of the Mill Canadian Manager
Advertisement