BuzzerBeater Forums

No extra facts are needed in my view. Hence I did not provide any.

There has been a discussion, in the thread I linked to, whose clear outcome was that at the top teams in smaller countries get to compete at too small a cost. I can only refer you to that and hope you're not too biased towards your special interest.

Finally. England is not such a small country (520 users). Check out how many active users there are in Japan.

So basically this change is because guys from big countries were whining that those (enter whatever) from small countries who allegedly face no competition steal them players they want from TL?! How dare they! I don't want to believe this.

I thought it was clear consensus in that thread that once such a team from smaller country starts buying those players he/she would face similar financial condition as those from bigger countries. What went wrong?

i am sorry... Because it is a problem - how do you encourage people to train and develop their own national players?

before you get angry with me... i am not saying you are wrong or going to imply that you are... the NT is a fun side game for the national team coach and perhaps the few coaches that have a NT player in the NT team, but why on earth should I train own national players when it weakens my team and my changes in ever winning to BBB?

If what you are saying is really the reason the BB developers want to implent this change, which i believe you are wrong thinking that is the reason, but we both arent wrong or right because they havent said so, so this is all pure guessing, but it could be a reason so i respond to it, than i will quit the game...

For me, and i am not implying the other coaches must have the same idea like me, my own team and winning the national division with the best team possible to me is my main goal in this game. The second goal would be to win the cup. My third goal would be to win the BBB and very low on my priority list is the NT and therefore training homegrown players that are currently alot weaker than the foreign trainees i can afford.

I drafted a brilliant (although 19 year old) English SG last year and instead of figuring out a way to train him i sold him and bought an older foreign player - which helped me get a much better league position. What's stopping players continuing to do that over and over?

I am not sure as I understand what you mean by this. it sounds you are against this... May I ask why? I am only asking because i am trying to understand what other people feel. for me there are different ways to success and although I dont approave to all off them and I agree with you it would be cooler to have a team of home grown talent and train them for years and years. I dont see the difference between homegrown or foreign bought.

I agree with you there are no benefits for teams that train players instead off buy and sell etc. I wont comment on whether a player is trained with NT in mind or for own use. I do believe that in the long run, I hope i will be right or else i have a big problem, that training now my players and not concentrating on higher league positions will give me the benefit in the long run.

Your idea about the computer run teams is something I have been wondering about too. I have seen over the last few seasons many good draftees go to bot teams and I am not certain they dont disappear for good. It would be good if these draftees that have the potential to become great players somehow end up with players that would need them and train them. the only question is how, i really have no clue how to do that in a fair way... releasing them on TransferMarket would mean draftees from players might become unsellable, means less money for these teams etc

I agree with you changes are needed, but not the way it sounds like they are implementing it. If I look at the small countries they will have serious problems getting a decent team together. And for the teams that put long term plans into place like I did, the time scale they are implementing this change isnt long enough to make the most out off the plans I made... But I do understand that my team is not the most important... if it benefits the whole i will accept these changes, but not happily...

If the change benefits the majority less than it hurts the minority is it therefore correct?

That's what I'm afraid of. TL list was changed because majority wanted it. More to come? :(

the thing that is clear from the news (in my opinion) is that they will implement a salary increase for players that are not from your home country.

Also, we be making good better use of player nationalities, and domestic players will be slightly (typically 10-20%) better economically than foreign ones.

i have no problem with the rule as such as long as you have a choice to use home grown players or not. i just cant see people in small countries like for example japan to have enough decent acceptable trainees to have a choice. this means it does give an unfair advantage to people that can make the choice.

I reckon that the changes will be implemented anyway to make sure a team from the smaller countries surely never will win the BBB. Imagine a country from a small team win and all the abuse that breaks loose from all the players claiming that players in small countries have an easy ride!!! (yes sarcasm here)

Excellent post.

You do understand that a team from small country will have more revenue due to no competition thus making him able to create a better team that the guy in the big league because he wins everything nomatter what -> Fan survey is always maxxed.

Khm... So can you actually back up your claim with numbers.
Let's take Drunkers for example he has 369564 player salaries (not including the drafted players). Let's tax that with 10% that's ~36956 per week in taxes if you would have it in your country. Now his 3 Italyan players will make his team cost 13676 less per week. That's a whooping 191464 per season. If you think that one team can make just national player base team and be successful then you are wrong because none will give them away just to streanghten your opponent in the league. Now he has extreamly hard league and you will make that money back easy with easier games. If there are more users then more users need those no tax players -> stiffer competition harder to get. Every country has those inactive players + a lot of those good prospects will not be sold as people who know the game will keep them for themselves. With this change you have a better chance of getting that canadian superdraftplayer because others will be looking for their nationality player. Any of the low user country superteam can actually buy out any decent draftee if there is lesser outside intrest.

Khm... So can you actually back up your claim with numbers.
Let's take Drunkers for example he has 369564 player salaries (not including the drafted players). Let's tax that with 10% that's ~36956 per week in taxes if you would have it in your country. Now his 3 Italyan players will make his team cost 13676 less per week. That's a whooping 191464 per season. If you think that one team can make just national player base team and be successful then you are wrong because none will give them away just to streanghten your opponent in the league. Now he has extreamly hard league and you will make that money back easy with easier games. If there are more users then more users need those no tax players -> stiffer competition harder to get. Every country has those inactive players + a lot of those good prospects will not be sold as people who know the game will keep them for themselves. With this change you have a better chance of getting that canadian superdraftplayer because others will be looking for their nationality player. Any of the low user country superteam can actually buy out any decent draftee if there is lesser outside intrest.

This is useless because he can replace his players with domestic players much more easily to save much more, so your numbers of current state are only good to support one point of view.

What can be the purpose of a nationality tax, other than to discriminate against smaller countries? Aside from the fact that this has little resemblance to reality, for most small countries (perhaps Japan excepted), the level of competition in the top divisions is becoming much more competitive and approaching the other top domestic leagues (I am confident that at least 3 Naismith teams would make the playoffs in any current domestic league). Within a few more seasons, the competition gap will be closed.

Laissez-faire should be a first option.

If divison I.1 is small countries are such walkovers as some people believe, it would mean no fun for a team dominating that league. So effort of that team to succeed in BBB is legitimate and if the team has a temporal advantage that's right.

The only reason I entered this discussion is that I think the change is a step in the right direction and because the lobbying from small country users on this point strikes me as shameless.

Isn't shameless lobbying from big countries why this will be implemented?

You do understand that a team from small country will have more revenue due to no competition thus making him able to create a better team that the guy in the big league because he wins everything nomatter what -> Fan survey is always maxxed.

I'll address this point once more.

The competition will (unless extremely low amount of users) always get stronger and stronger.. Japan now has some good human managers promoted up for L.2 and in the Big 8 there are 4 excellent teams 1 of which is routinely or could routinely upset a lot of big userbase nations in PL matches.

During this period where we have less competition our average team also has a LOT LESS season ticket holders compared to more established leagues therefore the average attendences we enjoy are increased because of better win ratios but dampened because travelling support is not in the same numbers as it would be elsewhere.

Back to points i raised elsewhere.. if its only possible to improve at such a slow speed down the conveyor belt we are all travelling along then who can blame anyone for arriving in a league (again for examples sake) Japan and thinking geez.. it just aint worth it - I'm MILES behind the pace and losing enthusiasm.

Any changes need to be radical to the point of unrest of your top players and hidden attributes that have severe affects on the outcome of the game.

The goal in my opinion should be to promote that BB is a pick up and play game and with the right short and long term decisions (not just long term) you can challenge for top honors.

Its becoming more and more distorted as the rules now have to please countries with 5 Division whilst remaining status quo with those with really on a division 1.

Perhaps more effort should be placed on the distribution of teams into more competitive equal structures? Established national teams seem so clicky now that its unlikely a new user will ever be able to have a strong enough voice to ever run seriously for their NT....certain countries just seem destined to be 'old boys clubs' which i think is very unhealthy for the game. Whilst the high userbase countries will dominate for ever and a day.

Is this in itself fair on new users?

Last edited by Superfly Guy at 2/25/2009 9:56:43 AM

I strongly suggest to the people who aren't happy with the proposed changes help figure out an alternative solution to the problem. Because it is a problem - how do you encourage people to train and develop their own national players?

I don't realize this is a problem which this is supposed to fix. I don't buy it.

As long as the prospect is trained it doesn't matter where he gets his training. After all it's NT/U21 manager job to communicate.

To your problem - what about a draft where you actually can get a player worth training? When players with best rating are useless more and more often, something is wrong - and now we are supposed to prefer a local talent?!

The change prefers random draft luck above manager skill. If someone get really lucky and get a great domestic prospect, he would get even a greater advantage over those who don't. And since you can't influence the quality of the pool and you get untrainable A players as your first preference... it is matter of pure luck (and matter of editing your draft order to get a ticket into this lottery).