BuzzerBeater Forums

You saw the American way in this thread (I am American by the way, just live in a Japan). A pack of guys who'd been playing a few months giving advice to another guy who'd been playing a few months, pretending they had it all on hand. I came in with an opinion very contrary to theirs and well since I wasn't going with the crowd they decided to gang up on me.

When you tell someone in USA V that:

Mistake#1
Thinking that training is possilbe at your level in the game. One would hope this game is set to reward you for training your own players...that really only happens in small nations where they have the finances or established teams taht bought pre created players at around 22. Its just the way they set this game up.

You might want to be sure that you can actually, you know, back that up. And when confronted by examples of people who have had fairly decent success in USA V and IV with the approach that you are claiming is impossible, you might want to focus more on the actual facts rather than attacking the users who dare to disagree with you. For all your ranting above about the failure of the "American way", and in many respects I agree wholeheartedly, for you to so reflexively focus more on the source of a statement than the veracity of it is especially disappointing.

And something like this:

Like I tried to say (maybe it was different thread) I think that training etc. is the funner game to play. but its not the dominate one at that level. You got to trade your way up or wait a loooong time.

Simply absurd. Getting out of V in the USA is ridiculously easy, and IV is not exactly a murderer's row either. To say that you've got to daytrade or wait a long time is absolutely inaccurate, when we're talking about USA V and IV. Of course, the fact that someone can daytrade and promote out of V quickly is great; you can also mostly avoid trading altogether, train guys and still promote out of V. Equating "something works" with "something is the only thing that works", though, is where you're off track here.

I would like to ask a question from the name of this thread - HOW LONG SHOULD THIS TAKE? :)

Also, GM should finally close this thread. It served the purpose.

I would like to ask a question from the name of this thread - HOW LONG SHOULD THIS TAKE?

The real question is "how long should this take" for Wolph to "get it". The debate is not Americans vs. Wolph. It's lower division users vs. a guy who asserted that training is worthless in lower divisions. Wolph makes incendiary, baseless comments about the value of training, then complains when he's called to the carpet on his comments. His repeated argument that "you're in division ___......." is equally baseless. His claim of the intellectual high ground in the BB world ignores the fact that his team history isn't so great when compared with this user (146725) from a similar-sized country who started at approximately the same time, who has vastly outpaced the production of the illustrious Fire Country Trail Blazers.

All of this is a shame because, as Gologol stated above, Wolph's posts would be pretty insightful if they weren't so toxic.

Last edited by Arthur Monay at 10/6/2011 9:04:56 PM

I am not in Wolph's fan club or anything but I will stick up for him and say he does have a lot of very constructive things to say. I initially assumed his very aggressive ways of saying things were cultural because he is Japanese. Now that I know he is an American living in Japan...I still think it is cultural. The society is very rigid with people having to show great respect for their superiors so if you are in division IV you MUST bow when a JBBL manager enters the room and listen, anything else is a great disrespect. You can still have a discussion, you just need to do it the "correct" way.

I am starting to wonder where the heck this thread is going now.

As for promoting out of USA division V I have already told everyone many times about my buddy from USA who just bought guys on the TL for $1k each week and then fired them at the end of the week. Them and his three trainees got him promoted. Now that is easy!

I think my last post was unclear but I am on your side in this. It is hard to evaluate trainees because all good ones always have "Very few players like X have been transferred recently" so you can never be sure what they are worth. There is a plethora of reasons why new players in low leagues don't have success but most of it is just inexperience leading them to:

1) train players with low potential
2) train players with a too low starting base
3) train players with the wrong height
4) use trainers with silly levels that either bankrupt the team or dont get enough done
5) two position, three position or team train
6) switch trainees too often
7) don't manage minutes well so only one player is constantly getting 48+
8) concentrate far too long on one skill creating a reverse elastic effect and frequently making those JS monsters we see on the TL all the time with sensational JS and mediocre OD and JR

So we are discussing two different things.
You are saying they can't do it.
I say they can but they wont.

This is due to one or more of the blunders I have listed above. I'll give a simple example, a player I know was training a brilliant young trainee and put all his efforts into that one guy, he bought a level 6 trainer and nearly drove the team bankrupt paying $80,000 a week and eventually had to fire him and spent 2-3 weeks with a level 1 before he could afford a level 4. Madness!

The fact is that I HAVE made a profit on my trainees. Nobody has shown me a specific trainee built buy a new IV or V team that spent little money to acquire, can swear they didn'T spend a lot on their trainer, still had good record and the trainee worked out to have value on the transfer list which was greater than their investment. I've had some people talk theory about it, but no examples of an actual player. Maybe there is one and I am proven wrong. I would still offer if its possible, its not PROBABLE. Most people training at your level are in fact wasting their moeny.

I two-position trained these 5 players with an advanced trainer for 2 months back when I was clueless (you might argue I still am)

(18900431)
Bought: 32k
Sold: 110k

(18893919)
Bought: 153k
Sold: 357k

(13194457)
Bought: 200k
Sold: 400k

(17863127)
Bought: 122k
Sold: 250k

(17364118)
Bought: 200k
Sold: 300k

For a net profit of 710k. If you take away the cost of my advanced trainer: 14K*9 weeks = 126k, I made about 580k during one season of training. Subtracting the 3% transfer cost would lower that number to around 500k which is a good chunk of change for a D5 team.

More recently, I trained this player (19242940) for about 3 months with a level 4 trainer.

Bought: 132k
Sold: 413K

I trained him with two players I still have and both are worth more than what I paid for them.



Last edited by Arthur Monay at 10/6/2011 9:37:57 PM