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If the change benefits the majority less than it hurts the minority is it therefore correct?

That's what I'm afraid of. TL list was changed because majority wanted it. More to come? :(

the thing that is clear from the news (in my opinion) is that they will implement a salary increase for players that are not from your home country.

Also, we be making good better use of player nationalities, and domestic players will be slightly (typically 10-20%) better economically than foreign ones.

i have no problem with the rule as such as long as you have a choice to use home grown players or not. i just cant see people in small countries like for example japan to have enough decent acceptable trainees to have a choice. this means it does give an unfair advantage to people that can make the choice.

I reckon that the changes will be implemented anyway to make sure a team from the smaller countries surely never will win the BBB. Imagine a country from a small team win and all the abuse that breaks loose from all the players claiming that players in small countries have an easy ride!!! (yes sarcasm here)

Excellent post.

You do understand that a team from small country will have more revenue due to no competition thus making him able to create a better team that the guy in the big league because he wins everything nomatter what -> Fan survey is always maxxed.

Khm... So can you actually back up your claim with numbers.
Let's take Drunkers for example he has 369564 player salaries (not including the drafted players). Let's tax that with 10% that's ~36956 per week in taxes if you would have it in your country. Now his 3 Italyan players will make his team cost 13676 less per week. That's a whooping 191464 per season. If you think that one team can make just national player base team and be successful then you are wrong because none will give them away just to streanghten your opponent in the league. Now he has extreamly hard league and you will make that money back easy with easier games. If there are more users then more users need those no tax players -> stiffer competition harder to get. Every country has those inactive players + a lot of those good prospects will not be sold as people who know the game will keep them for themselves. With this change you have a better chance of getting that canadian superdraftplayer because others will be looking for their nationality player. Any of the low user country superteam can actually buy out any decent draftee if there is lesser outside intrest.

Khm... So can you actually back up your claim with numbers.
Let's take Drunkers for example he has 369564 player salaries (not including the drafted players). Let's tax that with 10% that's ~36956 per week in taxes if you would have it in your country. Now his 3 Italyan players will make his team cost 13676 less per week. That's a whooping 191464 per season. If you think that one team can make just national player base team and be successful then you are wrong because none will give them away just to streanghten your opponent in the league. Now he has extreamly hard league and you will make that money back easy with easier games. If there are more users then more users need those no tax players -> stiffer competition harder to get. Every country has those inactive players + a lot of those good prospects will not be sold as people who know the game will keep them for themselves. With this change you have a better chance of getting that canadian superdraftplayer because others will be looking for their nationality player. Any of the low user country superteam can actually buy out any decent draftee if there is lesser outside intrest.

This is useless because he can replace his players with domestic players much more easily to save much more, so your numbers of current state are only good to support one point of view.

What can be the purpose of a nationality tax, other than to discriminate against smaller countries? Aside from the fact that this has little resemblance to reality, for most small countries (perhaps Japan excepted), the level of competition in the top divisions is becoming much more competitive and approaching the other top domestic leagues (I am confident that at least 3 Naismith teams would make the playoffs in any current domestic league). Within a few more seasons, the competition gap will be closed.

Laissez-faire should be a first option.

If divison I.1 is small countries are such walkovers as some people believe, it would mean no fun for a team dominating that league. So effort of that team to succeed in BBB is legitimate and if the team has a temporal advantage that's right.

The only reason I entered this discussion is that I think the change is a step in the right direction and because the lobbying from small country users on this point strikes me as shameless.

Isn't shameless lobbying from big countries why this will be implemented?

You do understand that a team from small country will have more revenue due to no competition thus making him able to create a better team that the guy in the big league because he wins everything nomatter what -> Fan survey is always maxxed.

I'll address this point once more.

The competition will (unless extremely low amount of users) always get stronger and stronger.. Japan now has some good human managers promoted up for L.2 and in the Big 8 there are 4 excellent teams 1 of which is routinely or could routinely upset a lot of big userbase nations in PL matches.

During this period where we have less competition our average team also has a LOT LESS season ticket holders compared to more established leagues therefore the average attendences we enjoy are increased because of better win ratios but dampened because travelling support is not in the same numbers as it would be elsewhere.

Back to points i raised elsewhere.. if its only possible to improve at such a slow speed down the conveyor belt we are all travelling along then who can blame anyone for arriving in a league (again for examples sake) Japan and thinking geez.. it just aint worth it - I'm MILES behind the pace and losing enthusiasm.

Any changes need to be radical to the point of unrest of your top players and hidden attributes that have severe affects on the outcome of the game.

The goal in my opinion should be to promote that BB is a pick up and play game and with the right short and long term decisions (not just long term) you can challenge for top honors.

Its becoming more and more distorted as the rules now have to please countries with 5 Division whilst remaining status quo with those with really on a division 1.

Perhaps more effort should be placed on the distribution of teams into more competitive equal structures? Established national teams seem so clicky now that its unlikely a new user will ever be able to have a strong enough voice to ever run seriously for their NT....certain countries just seem destined to be 'old boys clubs' which i think is very unhealthy for the game. Whilst the high userbase countries will dominate for ever and a day.

Is this in itself fair on new users?

Last edited by Superfly Guy at 2/25/2009 9:56:43 AM

I strongly suggest to the people who aren't happy with the proposed changes help figure out an alternative solution to the problem. Because it is a problem - how do you encourage people to train and develop their own national players?

I don't realize this is a problem which this is supposed to fix. I don't buy it.

As long as the prospect is trained it doesn't matter where he gets his training. After all it's NT/U21 manager job to communicate.

To your problem - what about a draft where you actually can get a player worth training? When players with best rating are useless more and more often, something is wrong - and now we are supposed to prefer a local talent?!

The change prefers random draft luck above manager skill. If someone get really lucky and get a great domestic prospect, he would get even a greater advantage over those who don't. And since you can't influence the quality of the pool and you get untrainable A players as your first preference... it is matter of pure luck (and matter of editing your draft order to get a ticket into this lottery).

Khm... So can you actually back up your claim with numbers.
Let's take Drunkers for example he has 369564 player salaries (not including the drafted players). Let's tax that with 10% that's ~36956 per week in taxes if you would have it in your country. Now his 3 Italyan players will make his team cost 13676 less per week. That's a whooping 191464 per season. If you think that one team can make just national player base team and be successful then you are wrong because none will give them away just to streanghten your opponent in the league. Now he has extreamly hard league and you will make that money back easy with easier games. If there are more users then more users need those no tax players -> stiffer competition harder to get. Every country has those inactive players + a lot of those good prospects will not be sold as people who know the game will keep them for themselves. With this change you have a better chance of getting that canadian superdraftplayer because others will be looking for their nationality player. Any of the low user country superteam can actually buy out any decent draftee if there is lesser outside intrest.

Perhaps turnabout is fair play. Drunkers lost out with the econ changes, but now with the second favourable rule change should be able to move back up (changing b3 to arcade will allow them to try and win every game instead of dumping one). However, the rule change really helps users in Italy and Spain with the high cash flows from their arenas and plethora of draft talent available to make $200 k a week monsters (which will be necessary to win international tournaments). This would more or less give them an advantage of a $100 k salary a week subsidy.

That said, I do realize my team has had "unique" advantages due to winning in the first couple of seasons. Nonetheless, teams are able to catch up, whereas it is doubtful that small countries would be able to catch up when this change is put into effect.

The most he can save is 36956 that he would pay for taxes. Do you understand that more users = more people who want the same thing. Is someone going to give him those players for free? No! If he switches all his players at once he will lose out on transfer fees. You are living in a dream land if you think he can manage to get to all Italian team. If he does he will not compete aswell + he has lost prolly 3-4 years of taxes money on TL.

I think it's fair for an individual to say they don't care about the national teams but i disagree with the opinion that no one cares about it. It is an important side of the game to many, i feel that to a degree players should have more pride in their national team. It's also my opinion that there needs to be a incentives for players to develop home grown talent to help out your national coaches.

It's completely fair to say as an individual that you're not concerned about the national team, and the future of the tournamanets. I think many people, and the BB's, feel it is a concern and there needs to be some incentive to help it improve. The national tournaments are largely ignored by many, and maybe the designers want players to get more involved with it.

So yes, in my opinion it's a problem that does need addressing.