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8 or 9 is enough for lower divisions. Not sure if it can pass in USA III, but Malaysia II 9 is ok I guess.

8 or 9 is enough for BBB level, at least to improve your chanches against inside attacks.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 6/26/2012 12:23:56 PM

You mention SB a lot, but by far the best 2-3 zone team i've ever faced had really low shot blocking. Not saying that means anything necessarily... just throwing it out there. (and i notice a couple other said very high SB isn't necessary)

you're right that most people don't have the personnel... but it's strange that a defense requires a specific roster type. For example, does any team not have the personnel to run 3-2 zone???

ok, even *if* someone had the rare team to run 2-3 zone as effectively as man to man... what's the point? You just leave yourself open to get killed by any non-inside offense. Similar to playing 1-3-1 zone expecting motion, but getting look inside instead. (just talking in general -- before someone brings up specific examples).

Why 2-3 zone really sucks as run by every team i've played (but 1): it obviously gets destroyed by outside / neutral offenses. Yet is still the defense i'd most like to face when i use look inside!!! At least from my time in D5-D2. (Yes, even over FCP) Even vs. D1 $200-$300k players it's still failed miserably. Imagine if 1-3-1 zone was worse vs. outside offense than M2M is...

you're right that most people don't have the personnel... but it's strange that a defense requires a specific roster type. For example, does any team not have the personnel to run 3-2 zone???
[...]
Imagine if 1-3-1 zone was worse vs. outside offense than M2M is...

I wonder how it would change if there were two outside defense skills; one that was about turnovers (stolen passes and dribbles) and one that was about defending jump shots. If there was a case and then nobody trained the second one because it was too expensive or didn't do enough or whatever, would 3-2 be broken and would outside offenses be dramatically better?

Of course, I'm not sure that could work - as it is, there are six primary skills for guards and although some people don't like taking JR too high, pretty much all of them are useful and need to be trained. Adding a seventh would just make it that much longer to train a well-rounded guard, while big men continue to have the three skills that people train and one skill that everyone treats as the red-headed stepchild.

Right, you are saying that the 2-3 is even worse than M2M versus a LI, and that is the exact reason SB is important. You could get by probably with low SB if you are facing a team with high IS but not much driving. But when you face those heavy driving teams, the reason it fails is poorly contested layups and dunks that SB would alter.

Also, you say 2-3 is bad against an outside offense, which is logical. But once again, has any team really run it with 2 guards with higher than average OD for their league, along with forwards with good OD to go with the ID? Most likely not. So for that exact reason, people will continue to say that the 2-3 is worse to use but once again, the teams just aren't built for it. A 2-3 defense can be very effective in real life, just like it could be on here. The difference is we can't exactly teach the players on here how to run it effectively, instead we have to train them effectively to play it.

Also, you talk about a 1-3-1 being useless against a good LI attack, but once again it is because teams aren't built properly to run it. Everyone thinks so one dimensionally on here so no teams are built properly for these others defenses. If you were to take your time and build for something other than M2M or 3-2 you would fine that the other defenses are not "broke" and can be run just as effectively.

Last edited by Isaiah at 6/26/2012 2:28:22 PM

there are six primary skills for guards

I dont know why so many people cant see at least HA and PA as a skill that even big men should have. Now i dont look at basketball or anything like that and im only here because i really like the game. But i dont thnk there are many post players in the NBA that cant pass or somewhat dribble with the ball.
It seems like so much from real life has gone lost when training players here in BB.

There's no time for that when you've got to hurry up to rush out that next overpaid three-skill donkey that goes for peanuts on the TL! ;)

But i dont think there are many post players in the NBA that cant pass or somewhat dribble with the ball.

This is true, but here are some that can:
Kevin Love
Chris Bosh
Kevin Garnett
Dirk Nowitzki
Amare Stoudemire

I know there are some more, but these are the ones I can come up with.

you're right that most people don't have the personnel... but it's strange that a defense requires a specific roster type. For example, does any team not have the personnel to run 3-2 zone???

i believe many player have the personal, but don't use it right. I would really sub in your third big, and try it like that then.

And especially in the US leagues i have the feeling that you are really rate OD very high, so i thing this have also an impact on an SF who are more build for outside defence already.

I think another reason for people to dislike 2-3 zone is the guards on the opposing side. Usually teams that prefer LI (should) use guards with moderately high IS and very high DR. This leads to more mid range opportunities being taken against the weakened outside defense. Having players with above average OD should help in this too, but against teams with guards with lower shooting the regular high ID inside players should suffice in the zone.

Last edited by Iso_Massimo at 6/26/2012 5:17:18 PM

there are six primary skills for guards

I dont know why so many people cant see at least HA and PA as a skill that even big men should have. Now i dont look at basketball or anything like that and im only here because i really like the game. But i dont thnk there are many post players in the NBA that cant pass or somewhat dribble with the ball.
It seems like so much from real life has gone lost when training players here in BB.

Tomofey Mozgov
Greg Oden
John Edwards (former Hawk and Pacer, allegedly is a person who plays here)
McColluagh

there have been several throughout NBA history.

Just because JaVale McGee botches plays like this and ends up on youtube, doesn't mean all centers are capable of it.

Whom was the last Center to average more than 5+ assists?

Dwight Howard averaged over 3 turnovers a game last season and less than 2 assists per game. just thought id mention that.

There are some players in the past, where, they basically just didnt want to give them the ball at all in offense. Tends to not happen now in the NBA, but back in the day you had big uncoordianted C's who were just there to rebound, block and do nothing on offense. set a screen or two.

guys like Mark eaton, or Will Perdue, or Manute Bol, or Greg Ostertag! You just dont get gumbies like that in the NBA anymore.