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I guess it would also be an option to move to training other positions easier. For instance, I'm training PF/C and have trained up 2 really good centers and they're getting a little old to train. I could hold onto them, buy a couple SF trainee's, and switch to training SF/PF. Get to keep the players I put so much time into training (training, my way), and continue training the rest of my players.

I am in the same boat. I need to train my forwards (and SGs) and my centers are starting to get a bit pricey. I'd like to be able to train the forwards on inside skills without training my centers.

Finding it difficult to see a reason NOT to have the freedom in training we're all suggesting here.

Great post. I'd like to hear anyone (particularly a BB) who can offer some dissent here.

I absolutely agree with you. I think you should be able to have complete control over the training of your players. If you want to train your C in outside defense you should be able to do so (and thereby make a mistake).

Of course certain skills should be very difficult to acquire for certain type of players (i.e: a C in outside defense), but if a manager still wants to do that well that should be his problem and his right...

This would be the key to implementation.

So let's say that there was a training factor associated with each training type and skill and position. For example for "pressure training", outside defense might be PG 1.0; SG 1.0; SF 0.8; PF 0.6; C 0.5, and the inside defense component might have factors of PG 0.5; SG 0.5; SF 0.7; PF 0.9; C 1.0..

So if you chose pressure and PG, your PGs would get mostly OD and a little bit of ID. If you chose pressure and C. your center would get mostly ID and a little bit of OD. So if you wanted your C to get some OD, then you could train pressure and C; but it would be more efficient for you to play him at PG and train pressure and PG.

If you chose pressure and PG/C, then the training would be cut in half, but the concentration for the positions would be more appropriate for their positions.

This would still work even if the ID component for pressure is less than the OD component.

Great post. I'd like to hear anyone (particularly a BB) who can offer some dissent here.

This from BB-Domenico, in the thread that was closed:

we don't think so.
you can't improve in a skill unless you practice it in-game, and (for instance) a center does not dribble that much, nor does a point guard get to defend in the lane often enough.

I get this point, at least for some skills. But, frontcourt players still pass, drive and take jump shots. Just as backcourt players still rebound and attempt to block shots.

TIE/CT are allowed, but is more unrealistic than the training suggestions here. TIE/CT may or may not improve the fun of the game (depends on the user), while I can only see positives to having more flexible training options. Maybe I'm not seeing any secondary negative effects to this which may exist. Anyone out there really disagree with this suggestion?

Edited by brianjames (12/24/2007 1:11:55 AM CET)

Last edited by brian at 12/24/2007 1:11:55 AM

Great post. I'd like to hear anyone (particularly a BB) who can offer some dissent here.

This from BB-Domenico, in the thread that was closed:

we don't think so.
you can't improve in a skill unless you practice it in-game, and (for instance) a center does not dribble that much, nor does a point guard get to defend in the lane often enough.

This is my reply to Domenico, from the same thread:

Really? Since he doesn't practice passing in-game (and therefore I can't train him in passing), can you explain to me why my PF averages 4.1 assists/game?

And my 3rd string PG can't be trained any further in shot blocking, yet he averages 1.3 blocks per game.

I'm just having problems with your theory, Dom.

And I agree that we may just be seeing the positives here, brian. The positives, however, are so overwhelming that I'm having a very hard time coming up with negatives.

You didn't gave a fair example there, since you can train passing for your whole team atm. Dom didn't say anything about passing in his example. Passing is logically used by every player on court. Same for rebounding.


There quite a few training sorts right now where you can choose to train your whole team, but there are a few where it's not possible yet, like handling, pressure and most of the inside skills. If they will add a train team function there as well the problem is solved.

Edited by PatjeBono (12/26/2007 1:07:38 PM CET)

Last edited by BB-Patrick at 12/26/2007 1:07:38 PM

I think that apart from everything that is said here,
and I agree that it's all positive, and I as well would like to train just the way I want,
the BBs choose not to change it, and might have purposely choosen this system in the first place...

in order to prevent new players from drowning....

BB lets you choose from a variaty of trainingtypes for diffrent positions. I think they did their best to make sure the most important things where included. Yes for several very specific situations you could use other types/positions still, but in the end the trainingtypes they offer, will probably gain the most overall (players train the skills they most use, even if they do use all skills , some are used most, so training those would benefit most in the end).

There is also the scrimages in which you can play specific players at a specific position if you realy want a specific player to train a specific thing.

Last, but not least, I'd like to add that even though you might not want to train your center while training your PF (or any other combination you might think of), but in the end I don't think they are all legendary, so they will get better, even though you find that they are good enough already, they will become better still, that's great isn't it?
(ofcourse I know one would like to put some 18yr old in the trainingspot instead of your 28 yr old center to get the max out of training, but hey... sell the 28yr old and buy a 18 instead if it's realy that bothering)

If 1 player is realy upsetting your trainingsceme that much, I'd sell him and buy an other that fits more into the scheme, rather than trying to have the system changed. After all, it's the same for all. And we get a good variaty of choices for training.
This does not mean I wouldn't like to train exactly what I want and that I also would like that option, still I think I find it better this way, if just only for the fact to prevent that people who don't realy know what they are doing go train skils for players they won't often use.

You didn't gave a fair example there, since you can train passing for your whole team atm. Dom didn't say anything about passing in his example. Passing is logically used by every player on court. Same for rebounding.

There quite a few training sorts right now where you can choose to train your whole team, but there are a few where it's not possible yet, like handling, pressure and most of the inside skills. If they will add a train team function there as well the problem is solved.

No, Dom didn't say anything about passing; what he said was "you can't improve in a skill unless you practice it in-game," which to me means that the training is currently set up as to only train the positions in skills they actually use in-game. Yet guards block shots. Centers pass the ball, and occasionally take outside shots and defend outside. I really dislike team training schemes, as they can be counter-intuitive based on their slower speed.

The current training schemes can force you to train a position you don't want to, which works against you when you have a player or two whose salaries are getting rather high relative to what you can afford.

Last, but not least, I'd like to add that even though you might not want to train your center while training your PF (or any other combination you might think of), but in the end I don't think they are all legendary, so they will get better, even though you find that they are good enough already, they will become better still, that's great isn't it?
(ofcourse I know one would like to put some 18yr old in the trainingspot instead of your 28 yr old center to get the max out of training, but hey... sell the 28yr old and buy a 18 instead if it's realy that bothering)

If 1 player is realy upsetting your trainingsceme that much, I'd sell him and buy an other that fits more into the scheme, rather than trying to have the system changed. After all, it's the same for all. And we get a good variaty of choices for training.
This does not mean I wouldn't like to train exactly what I want and that I also would like that option, still I think I find it better this way, if just only for the fact to prevent that people who don't realy know what they are doing go train skils for players they won't often use.

At the end of next season, my starting centers will look about like this:

A
Inside Shot: proficient Inside Def.: tremendous
Rebounding: proficient Shot Blocking: strong

B
Inside Shot: prolific Inside Def.: sensational
Rebounding: strong Shot Blocking: prominent

Player A will be 21. Player B will be 25. Assuming I want to continue training my SFs & PFs in Inside Shot, Inside Defense, Rebounding, or Shot Blocking, I will also have to train my centers, whose wages may be getting close to unaffordable. Are you saying I should get rid of my centers and all of the hard work I will have put into training them?

that is exactly what I am saying...

you don't even have to wait until that time, you can even sell them faster and buy new ones who are 1 or two skills lower, and then train them along with the rest...
This way you can make good profit, which you can use to by better guards (which you are not training)

How else can you get a balanced team, if you are not plannnig on making money from trained players so you can buy stronger ones for the positions you are not training?

You can try to train all your players over time, yes, and with the system that is proposed it would be possible as well, however, over time I think players will start realising that is is much faster to have other teams train some of the positions for them and buy those on the market with the money made from own trained players, instead of trying to train everyone yourself... Your players do get older, and then they will train slower.
Teams buying 18yr old trainees for their training positions and buying around 25 or 26 yr olds for the other positions will grow much much faster than when you start out with a full team of 18 yr olds and try to get all of them trained, since over time you will be training 25 to 30 yr olds, while the other teams can stick to training 18 to 24 yr olds...

So to prevent managers from sticking to their players for too long and trying to train them beyond the age of 28 yrs old, BB came up with a nice trainingsystem. ;)
It's for your own good. ;þ
No seriously, I think (and that's my personal feeling) it is great as it is. I don't deny you could get more freedom, and I as well, would even like that, but I think it's best in the general intrest of ALL managers (and especially those who like to play BB without reading all the available info on the forums) that it stays like it is.
We should adapt to the system rolled out for us, the system should not adapt to the likes of a bunch of managers, unless more than 90% of the total active managers feels it should change.
Even then it is still risky, since mostly managers often think about what they could use, and would like, now, without thinking about how it evolves later. In this particular case, it might have as a result that training becomes too easy, so that managers won't need to buy players, but can train just what they like (since the next step would be that the comunity will ask to be able to train each player separatly. We won't stop asking, as long as we are given things. That's the human nature). If you have trained your players up, they won't sell, since everyone has his own to train, however wages are still there, with players that have wages but aren't realy worth much on the TL, the economy might be out of balance...
(ofcourse this is an exhagerated prediction, but it is just to show how easely stuff might be influenced, and it could be bad for all, while nobody ever thinks about it when requesting changes...)

I quote from science: as long as everything runs smoothly, keep your hands off. ;)

but i still think that the current system is not very efficient.

if you are conserned that training will be too easy, then extend the training time. i still strongly agree that we should have the freedom to choose what we want to train and who to train.

what if i have an almost perfect centre but with actrocious passing and would like to train him without training the whole team. i would either have to put him in SG/PG or train the whole team. there are always other ways to overcome the problems you have just discussed in your post but there is no other way for us to train our centres passing.

handling doesnt even have the option for team training and yet all positions include handling as an important skills in this post (3944.3).

and as GM-BadLarry said, No skill is completely useless for any position. well that is the exact opposite of what BB-Domenico stated here:

we don't think so.
you can't improve in a skill unless you practice it in-game, and (for instance) a center does not dribble that much, nor does a point guard get to defend in the lane often enough.

i just don't see the GMs/BBs having anything to say in this one.



Edited by shadower (12/30/2007 8:07:20 PM CET)

Last edited by shadower at 12/30/2007 8:07:20 PM

you could play the center in the scrimmage on the PG position, with no subs and train passing for PG...
okay it's not ideal, but it works. I think B tries to avoid managers starting to train PG at blocking and such things, just because they have no clue what to train to start with...
(yes I know most will know this is no good, but there are other, less bad examples who aren't realy effective training types either, but this is the clearest example)

As for the GM and BB contradicting: actually they are not.
BB says: some players do not use some skills enough during the game, in order to be able to improve at it. -> see that much and often enough
GM says: no skill is completely useless. Which implements some skills are not used often, however they are used once in a while...
I'd say they say the same thing basically.
What the BB says is that for those skills they do not use that often, they get no training, because they simply don't use them often.
And before anyone goes trowing with games where a center had 7 assists, and a PG had 4 blocks and all that, yes I know, and yes you are right, BUT...
Here in Belgium they say: trainer is always right... so here it is BB is always right. ;)
I wouldn't want them to tweak the game engine so my center doesn't give any assist, and my PG gets no blocks at all, just so you guys can't tell them anymore that they do use those skills in order to get that training! ;þ