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I would like to ask a question from the name of this thread - HOW LONG SHOULD THIS TAKE?

The real question is "how long should this take" for Wolph to "get it". The debate is not Americans vs. Wolph. It's lower division users vs. a guy who asserted that training is worthless in lower divisions. Wolph makes incendiary, baseless comments about the value of training, then complains when he's called to the carpet on his comments. His repeated argument that "you're in division ___......." is equally baseless. His claim of the intellectual high ground in the BB world ignores the fact that his team history isn't so great when compared with this user (146725) from a similar-sized country who started at approximately the same time, who has vastly outpaced the production of the illustrious Fire Country Trail Blazers.

All of this is a shame because, as Gologol stated above, Wolph's posts would be pretty insightful if they weren't so toxic.

Last edited by Arthur Monay at 10/6/2011 9:04:56 PM

I am not in Wolph's fan club or anything but I will stick up for him and say he does have a lot of very constructive things to say. I initially assumed his very aggressive ways of saying things were cultural because he is Japanese. Now that I know he is an American living in Japan...I still think it is cultural. The society is very rigid with people having to show great respect for their superiors so if you are in division IV you MUST bow when a JBBL manager enters the room and listen, anything else is a great disrespect. You can still have a discussion, you just need to do it the "correct" way.

I am starting to wonder where the heck this thread is going now.

As for promoting out of USA division V I have already told everyone many times about my buddy from USA who just bought guys on the TL for $1k each week and then fired them at the end of the week. Them and his three trainees got him promoted. Now that is easy!

I think my last post was unclear but I am on your side in this. It is hard to evaluate trainees because all good ones always have "Very few players like X have been transferred recently" so you can never be sure what they are worth. There is a plethora of reasons why new players in low leagues don't have success but most of it is just inexperience leading them to:

1) train players with low potential
2) train players with a too low starting base
3) train players with the wrong height
4) use trainers with silly levels that either bankrupt the team or dont get enough done
5) two position, three position or team train
6) switch trainees too often
7) don't manage minutes well so only one player is constantly getting 48+
8) concentrate far too long on one skill creating a reverse elastic effect and frequently making those JS monsters we see on the TL all the time with sensational JS and mediocre OD and JR

So we are discussing two different things.
You are saying they can't do it.
I say they can but they wont.

This is due to one or more of the blunders I have listed above. I'll give a simple example, a player I know was training a brilliant young trainee and put all his efforts into that one guy, he bought a level 6 trainer and nearly drove the team bankrupt paying $80,000 a week and eventually had to fire him and spent 2-3 weeks with a level 1 before he could afford a level 4. Madness!

The fact is that I HAVE made a profit on my trainees. Nobody has shown me a specific trainee built buy a new IV or V team that spent little money to acquire, can swear they didn'T spend a lot on their trainer, still had good record and the trainee worked out to have value on the transfer list which was greater than their investment. I've had some people talk theory about it, but no examples of an actual player. Maybe there is one and I am proven wrong. I would still offer if its possible, its not PROBABLE. Most people training at your level are in fact wasting their moeny.

I two-position trained these 5 players with an advanced trainer for 2 months back when I was clueless (you might argue I still am)

(18900431)
Bought: 32k
Sold: 110k

(18893919)
Bought: 153k
Sold: 357k

(13194457)
Bought: 200k
Sold: 400k

(17863127)
Bought: 122k
Sold: 250k

(17364118)
Bought: 200k
Sold: 300k

For a net profit of 710k. If you take away the cost of my advanced trainer: 14K*9 weeks = 126k, I made about 580k during one season of training. Subtracting the 3% transfer cost would lower that number to around 500k which is a good chunk of change for a D5 team.

More recently, I trained this player (19242940) for about 3 months with a level 4 trainer.

Bought: 132k
Sold: 413K

I trained him with two players I still have and both are worth more than what I paid for them.



Last edited by Arthur Monay at 10/6/2011 9:37:57 PM

Games won/lost is also an issue.

I haven't lost a league game during the last two seasons.

Like I said at the beginning, I was clueless at that point in my career. I went through this two-week daytrading phase where I would purchase a player, realize he was worthless, then sell him for more than I paid. I did pretty well until the transfer penalty started getting too high. Some of the players I presented as examples were steals and others I paid too much for. I did a lot of 1v1 training with a little OD on the players I mentioned. Most of the pops I got were purely cosmetic, BUT it was enough for me to make some money.

You trained retirees, NOT PLAYERS. I am training NT players. There is a difference BIG difference. And this is EXACTLY what I mean by you can't train at your level.

You're right, to an extent. The players I trained will have no impact at the national level, but they made me money and helped me advance. Still valuable. The point you almost made, before insulting me, was important: To make money on trainees or any player for that matter, you have to know when to list and at what price to set the minimum bid to get the highest transfer price possible.

I shoudl be nicer. I am sorry. I try to be nice...but I just can't I guess. I have a database at home of my flips. I'd go through my transfer list now, but tooo lazy. I can show you 700k profit in flips ina 2month period. Non-trainees. I guess I should ahve just said that, not been mean and go through your list picking apart player by player team by team. Probably embarrassing to see all your trainees retiring and/or stuck in d.V

Why do the decisions of other managers reflect poorly on me?


Last edited by Arthur Monay at 10/6/2011 11:04:42 PM

None of these guys are trained, some sold within a week. Basically you need to outpace this margin to prove training low value players works IMO, otherwise no way to know if it was the training or the savvy shopping/selling that earned profit. This is why I don't consider any player that retired a good example of successfull trianing.

That's what the players sold for, not the profit you made. The transfer penalty for daytrading becomes huge in a short amount of time. And now that you have to keep players for 1 financial update, daytrading is even less profitable.




Last edited by Arthur Monay at 10/6/2011 11:25:27 PM