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Analyzing Motion

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This Post:
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210204.120 in reply to 210204.117
Date: 3/17/2012 4:02:06 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
146146
i could be wrong but from what i've read on the bb-usa blog, passing is generally more important for centers than pf's

This Post:
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210204.121 in reply to 210204.119
Date: 3/17/2012 4:24:40 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
6060

However, I've learned that some things in BB don't make much sense compared to real life situations. Could you elaborate a little further on your argument?


No I can't sorry, it's only a guess.

This Post:
66
210204.122 in reply to 210204.121
Date: 3/19/2012 9:06:26 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
952952
Second in line for analysis is Starcrow Trail Blazers ( (173499)). His starting five are pretty much on same level, especially position 1-3. I'm still waiting for his players' skills if he will be so kind and send it to me, but in the meantime analysis gave plenty of answers too.

First table's name is »Team %«

3p (3 pointers): Out of team's 3 pointers, how many were attempted by position
2P (Jump shots): Out of team's Jump shots, how many were attempted by position
IS (Inside shots): Out of team's Inside shots, how many were attempted by position
DR (Layups): Out of team's layups, how many were attempted by position
PA( Pass attempts (not assists!)): Out of team's pass attempts, how many were attempted by position
%SH: % of how many possessions each of five positions used for a shot
%PA: % of hos many possessions each of five position used for a pass attempt

Example: Out of 138 Jump shots taken by whole team, 19% were taken by PG, 30 % by SG etc.


POS	3P	2P	IS	DR	PA	%SH	%PA
PG 27 19 0 26 35 23 35
SG 25 30 1 42 22 28 22
SF 39 20 9 19 15 23 15
PF 7 12 38 12 12 14 12
C 3 12 50 2 15 13 15


I found an interesting twist here. PG, SG and SF are using same % of team possessions for shots (23, 28 and 23 respectively), but the distribution of types of shots is quite different.

If you compare SG and SF, you see SG is shooting way less 3P than SF. Out of 100 shots, SG takes only 25 shots while SF takes 39 3P shots out of 100. This probably means SG has low JR for his position and SF has a high JR for his position. Furthermore, his SG is responsible for almost half of team's shots for driving, so we have a great example of »inside« SG for Motion who can't be guarded by a player with great OD and bad ID. I can't wait to see the skills!

PF and C don't have a great role here; out of 100 possessions, they are shooting the ball 27% combined.


2nd table is »Individual %« and shows what each position has been doing in his possessoins (it takes into account shot+passes attempts)

3p (3 pointers): Out of individual's shot+pass attempts, how many 3 pointers were attempted by position
2P (Jump shots): Out of individual's shot+pass attempts, how many Jump shots were attempted by position
IS (Inside shots): Out of individual's shot+pass attempts, how many Inside shots were attempted by position
DR (Layups): Out of individual's shot+pass attempts, how many Layups were attempted by position
PA( Pass attempts (not assists!)): Out of individual's shot+pass attempts, how many passes were attempted by position

Example: Out of 100 shot+pass attempts taken by PG, he took 36% of 3p attempts, 24% of 2p attempts, 4% of IS attempts, 12% of DR attempts and 24% of pass attempts.

POS	3P	2P	IS	DR	PA
PG 20 35 0 11 34
SG 19 42 1 18 21
SF 35 33 4 10 18
PF 10 33 25 10 23
C 4 33 33 2 29



This table shows us player's preference, a.k.a. what does he like to do in offense. In previous table we saw SG was responsible for almost half of team's Driving shots, but this table tells us Driving isn't preferred choice of the team – it's rather jump shot with exception of SF who likes to shoot 3P more than 2P.

So we haven't still find either a Pass-first PG or Driving guard, or even a dominant PF for Motion, but we are getting there.

Starcrow Trail Blazers features PG and SG, much more different than RakBa's; Blazers' PG and SG are not so outside oriented and prefer their Jump Shot to Jump range. SF is a different story. It's also interesting PF and C have more tendency for passing than SF and SG. Speaking of that, I think this team is a bit low on Offensive Flow and could use more passing on their SG and SF.

I think this analysis will also show passing on either PF or C is very important for Motion.

Last edited by Koperboy at 3/19/2012 9:11:58 AM

This Post:
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210204.123 in reply to 210204.2
Date: 3/19/2012 11:17:17 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
6060
It's not that I don't trust your data, I do, but I'd like to see Motion winning against LI in similar strong teams (preferably B3 level).

Unless that happens, I won't even consider using Motion over LI.

This Post:
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210204.124 in reply to 210204.123
Date: 3/19/2012 11:30:23 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
952952
this will likely happen in two cases.

1. Somebody builds a team, designed to bring down li defensively and other options are being seriously considered after that

2. Somebody builds a specialized motion team

in either way, this probably won't happen anytime soon. I'm currently in the middle of realizing 1st option and doing the analysis for 2nd

This Post:
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210204.125 in reply to 210204.123
Date: 3/19/2012 3:16:03 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
206206
(18524)

Good enough for you?

This Post:
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210204.126 in reply to 210204.125
Date: 3/19/2012 3:29:55 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
6060
Yes, great example.

@ Koperboy: How are you planning to stop LI attack? I'm curious..

This Post:
22
210204.128 in reply to 210204.126
Date: 3/19/2012 3:57:02 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
952952
Nothing fancy... just SB on bigs and ID on guards. Actually there's probably a lot of people who know how to build a team for Motion, Princeton and other offenses. They just don't want to take the risk of assembling and training such a team and not know if it will 100% work. But, what is the alternative? Play Look inside until you die? Even if I don't succeed, at least I had fun along the way

Last edited by Koperboy at 3/19/2012 3:59:42 PM

This Post:
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210204.129 in reply to 210204.128
Date: 3/19/2012 5:16:24 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
6060
Yeah I agree ;)

However, I personally have an idea how to stop Look Inside.

I think LI is stopped more by OD rather than ID.

That said, having a SF with very high OD, modest ID (9), and high rebounding might work great as PF. Unfortunately, I'm not supporter and can't test it on PL. But nevertheless, I'm very intrigued to see how it might work out..

This Post:
00
210204.130 in reply to 210204.129
Date: 3/19/2012 5:19:16 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
952952
But I don't think BBs designed the game so OD could stop inside tactics...

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