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so thanks this is helpful...

I do wonder whether or not if you had put TL as the starter and JD as the backup SG whether JD would have gotten more or less than 10 minutes?
My hunch is that he would have gotten less... meaning the coach did play him more often than he would have if he was put at starter in the depth chart... and if this is so, then i know where to look for a bug.... well it wouldnt be a bug exactly, it would just be that we need to rework our substitution algorithm because even if i fixed it so that TL STARTED on the court, our substitution algorithm might end up using him for a very similar number of minutes. This is really I think part of the general complaint that users have in which they don't fine control over their minutes, or that the options that they have don't give them the distribution of minutes they want over all ranges of skill differences.

I think JD as backup would have played less than 10 min, because usually TL plays more than 40 min even with a good backup.

However, if TL plays as backup with "follow strictly my orders", then he just play 10-15 minuts (depending on the particular match conditions).

I think people (and me) think that "dept chart until 4th" should work as "strictly follow my orders" for the first three quarters, and as "let coach decide" for the last quarter. This would give us a better control on the minutes, because for example in a cup match with a weak opponent, I could start with "bad players", and then in the last quarter, the "good ones" would get into the field to bring the match to our side.

If you are right (so TL would have played the same minutes even starting as backup), then the problem can be a bad understanding of this coach tactic (Depth Chart until 4th) by most of the BB users.

Anyway, this should fixed (IMO) because I cannot see the utility of this coach tactic if it is not working in the way I explained before... or maybe to explain better this tactic in the rules, describing what is the idea behind it.

Last edited by Emilio at 1/23/2009 6:28:25 PM

I have repeated the experiment, but this time T.L. was set as starter and J.D. as backup. The rest was all the same.

This time T.L. played the whole match... 48 min and J.D. did not play at the SG position (He played a few minutes as PF because he was set as reserve for this position and the starter was in trouble with the faults).

I can try other combination if it is helpful. I don´t care very much because I keep winning my matches even with such a strange line-up... ;-)

ok so i am going to say that the coach did seem to hear something between when TL starter as starter and when he started as backup... which means I know at least where the bug is now... and everything is working actually just as we designed, just the algorithm we chose has some unexpected consequences. The problem is the hack solution where we just make sure JD STARTS the game isn't really what you want if TL is gonna get most of the playing time.

Ok, I see. So if everything is almost running as intended, then there is a problem of a bad understanding of this tactic (by the users or even by the designers...), because I expected "depth chart until 4th" to make play JD most of the time the fist 3 quarters and TL the whole last quarter.

Most people I know are thinking the same in Spain. Even the current traslation of "depth chart until 4th" is something like "my orders until last quarters".

Rules say: "you can use your depth chart strictly until the 4th quarter, then tell the coach to try and win the game however he thinks is best (Depth Chart until 4th)". Is this still true?

Regards.

im saying the problem would still exist if you did strict depth chart.. because even in strict depth chart the coach considers the fitness/skill of the players some.. and the gap in skill between JD and TL is so large that the coach can't bear to put JD in over TL. We need to figure some other way to have the coach follow your orders.. we cant have him ignore skills because sometimes things happen that the DC can't account for... and he needs to make a tradeoff between players who are in the depth chart at multiple spots.. anyway...

(8598202)

In my match tonight, I am certain I set a starting line up which included "Ermin Bogataj" at SF, and Eric Dickinson at SG. Instead, Dickinson is playing at SF, and Rudolph Al-Shurman is starting at SG.

From my notepad, the following was my intended lineup:

PG: Howell, De Bares, Dickinson
SG: Dickinson, Al-Shurman, Bogataj
SF: Bogataj, Cocq, Machimbarrena
PF: Casstles, Barraquer, Machimbarrena
C: Cowan, Niz, Carvajal

Obviously I can't know for certain if I did in fact enter this as my team. However, I checked it twice last night and this morning, and thought it was right.

In the game, the starters are showing as Howell, Al-Shurman, Dickinson, Casstles, Cowan. In the first quarter, Al-Shurman gets injured, which is very annoying since he shouldn't even be in the game at this point. Now, instead of my star SG resting ready for the play-offs, he's getting injured!

Is there any way of identifying why the starting line-up isn't the one I expected? Did I do something wrong, or has the game not followed my orders for some reason?

I understand that the coach will make some changes to the substitution pattern in the DC, but changing the starting five seems just wrong. Besides, Bogataj often does play at SF, so it's not like the arrangement I was proposing was irrational and needed to be over-ruled.

In today SC I have wrong players playing than I setted for the game:

I fielded only 5 players:
My formation:

PG Víctor Núñez ((2594431)) Backup/Reserve
SG Rinalds Zarinš ((2583794))Backup/Reserve
SF Daniels Žvingulis ((7823651))Backup/Reserve
PF Oscar Salinas ((6708969))Backup/Reserve
C Gene Gerola ((2939361))Backup/Reserve

Base Offense, Man to Man, Strictly follow depth chart, let them play.

I definately know that I set Orders with these players, but on the game right now there are other ones who shouldnt play today, they are my top players and they will overplay their minutes...please fix this problem.

Look like my standart lineup is palying today, but I definately know that I set Orders for this game.
Thx
Ragans

Last edited by Ragans at 2/5/2009 11:07:42 AM

My last match http://www.buzzerbeater.com/BBWeb/boxscore.aspx?MatchID=1...

I don't know why players selected at PG didn't play in 4 th quarter. Instead players listed as reserves for SG+C or SF respectively shared those 12 minutes and didn't play where they should (except one of those two 3 minutes at SF). The game was dcide liong time ago, it doesn'T change outcome but it is crucial for my training plan - could you look at it? I expected Petrietis playing in 4th quarter at PG or some combination of Petrietis/Dunka.

I used strictly follow. I wanted those two reservers to be dressed to get some minutes game shape-wise and assigned them to some position to prevent what just happened. I experienced some random non-logic occurance of my perimeter players at big men position despite fully filled depth chart and strictly follow in my previous games (reserves/backups neglected) but it lasted only few minutes and didn't harm my training much so I just raised eyebrows.

This time my one-post training is screwed I can't get right minutes for my 3 trainees (not that I expected perfect 48 for all but i was willing to try to get as close to as I could).

Lineup pattern
A - B - B
B - C - D
E - F - G
H - I - F
I - J - D

I tried to get something like 30 Pg minutes for A and 18 for B (counting with blow out in advance).

Could you look at it?

If you have selected at least 10 active players for a game, and you are winning by enough for the game engine to be in blowout mode, the starters will not play, period. It doesn't matter if B is your 2nd and 3rd choice as PG... because he's the starting SG he will not play in a winning blowout situation.

I'm not saying that's how it should be, but that's how it has always been, and I've never seen it mentioned that this will be changed.

I do think that the recent changes made by Forrest will make it more likely that B sees time at PG in a normal game situation, though.

The problem is that random players playing at some positions over reserves even if those reserves are listed only as reserves in depth chart.