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This is probably the best group of changes I've seen since I started playing the game. People may disagree on exactly how they're addressing each problem but at least they're focused on doing something about most of the bigger issues.



Last edited by Beener not Beanerz at 9/21/2013 8:30:39 PM

So we can look and see is it good for the game as a whole to reward people for not playing cookie cutters and autotactics? Yes, it is, so while it may inconvenience me, I'm encouraged that it's still a change for the better.

Its too early to tell if these are good changes. Expect a good 4-5 seasons for teams to start making adjustments that impact the game after they are introduced. So increasing SB, decreasing the cost of JR, these things will take many seasons to bear out.

While this new guess-your-opponents-tactic feature doesn't impact LI only it is geared to address the overuse of it. For that reason this is too soon. Changes have been made that havent been fleshed out by the community yet.

In regards to fixing the GE's problem with punishing well balanced teams in certain ways (ie, backcourt outside shooters in a LI offense), fix the GE itself. We already have to swallow the bizarre effort choice that was stolen from Hattrick, now we have to bother with this crap as well?

Last edited by brian at 9/21/2013 9:14:29 PM

The problem is that LI and M2M are the tactic that are better tuned in the game,so try to solve the dominance of one tactic only through economic side without a general improvement of GE(because,all the tactis need to be better tuned and be more flexible,LI and M2M included, I don't see why a good quality outside shot created through LI or a good quality inside shot created through motion/r&G should get such a huge penalty anyway) won't give much results

Again, I don't see how you can state the GE is the root of the tactical imbalance if so many people train players to fit only one tactic. I'm much more in the basket of DerMef who states players will be optimized for giving the highest performance per salary dollar, and then you just pick a tactic that fits that optimized player skillet. When reasoning from his point of view, the change of salary should now automatically result in different trained skillsets.

As I said in the season 24 discussion topic, if I currenlty search the tranferslist for Shotblocking minimum 15 at this moment I get 6 results only. If I search for JR minimum 15 I get 60 only. Change it to OD you'll get over 600, change it to IS you'll get over 550. To me it makes a lot of sense teams aren't able to play a 2-3 zone effectively with skillsets like this. Yet this doesn't mean it's a GE problem.

Your problem is how to convince society that outside tactics are as effective as inside tactics. It is almost impossible to happen, while most teams train the same skillset players. If they want to change offensive tactic, they won't play effectively with inside focused players.

Can't wait to see what bugs might occur though. ;)

If I search for JR minimum 15 I get 60 only.

And if you take a look at those players that charge top dollar, you will find that all of them are poor shooters - none of those elite shooters (on paper) shoots better than .380 from three. So to me it is pretty obvious that there is no way someone would pay up to ~60k additional salary for elite range if he can get free IS on a guard that will produce efficiently.

I think the addition of the prediction bonus will backfire. First of all you get even easier wins over bot teams - not a big issue, but still. Second you failed to follow one of the key principles KISS - keep it simple stupid. Instead of constantly adding to the game to resolve the LI issue you could have removed the tactic from the main game - take your time to fix it, test it in PL and scrimmage games and unlock it again in a year or so.

Plus there are countertactics that should be used! 2-3 counters LI, so why do we need to add a bonus? IF the defense works like intended (as officials said multiple times) and we just need to fix our players...

So the direction we are going will lead to another imbalance in teams being able to field the right players to counter LI AND even get a bonus on top of it, so LI suddenly becomes unplayable because the countertactic became too strong. Please be aware of the possibility of oversteering in the wrong direction.

I think tweaking the salary formula is the right way to go, but as long as elite shooters don't hit their shots we won't see a surge in high JR players. So maybe you should take your time and think about the impact of OD and IS for guards.

Again, I don't see how you can state the GE is the root of the tactical imbalance if so many people train players to fit only one tactic. I'm much more in the basket of DerMef who states players will be optimized for giving the highest performance per salary dollar, and then you just pick a tactic that fits that optimized player skillet. When reasoning from his point of view, the change of salary should now automatically result in different trained skillsets.

As I said in the season 24 discussion topic, if I currenlty search the tranferslist for Shotblocking minimum 15 at this moment I get 6 results only. If I search for JR minimum 15 I get 60 only. Change it to OD you'll get over 600, change it to IS you'll get over 550. To me it makes a lot of sense teams aren't able to play a 2-3 zone effectively with skillsets like this. Yet this doesn't mean it's a GE problem.

So, if you agrre with DerMef, why do you think people should train for something different?
To have high SB to be capable to put out a 2-3 defense, you got to sacrifice one of the three main skills for the big man(IS,ID,Reb), since a big man with all the 4 skills high are not sustainable,so you will have one of these three situations
1) a guy without IS that is useless for inside tactics offensively,so you are forced to play only with outside tactic,that are actually less efficient than inside tactics(and with the prediction system you are fucked out anyway because your adversary can predict your offense)
2) a guy without ID that can't defend inside tactics even having SB,since ID is still the main defensive skills against shots near the rim
3) a guy without Reb that would give multiple 2nd chances to the adversaries, even with 2-3 zone in, so even if you lower the percentage of your adversary, he will still gets points on 2nd chances

Train SB give the lowest performance for salary dollar among the big man skills, so people don't train SB

Salary change can help on JR training,that's for sure,but still outside tactics remains less efficient than LI, so there will be a minor shift


Last edited by Steve Karenn at 9/22/2013 7:35:59 AM

The salary formula changed, so there will be a new allocation of skills ;) It's as easy as it sounds.

To have high SB to be capable to put out a 2-3 defense, you got to sacrifice one of the three main skills for the big man(IS,ID,Reb), since a big man with all the 4 skills high are not sustainable

Didn't someone say that in addition to the salary tweak the potential formula was also changed? I think it should be possible to train a C with four decent core skills if that was true. 4x15 is doable with an MVP player under the old salary formula, maybe with the recent change this can be done with a superstar potential dude too?