BuzzerBeater Forums

I think my last post was unclear but I am on your side in this. It is hard to evaluate trainees because all good ones always have "Very few players like X have been transferred recently" so you can never be sure what they are worth. There is a plethora of reasons why new players in low leagues don't have success but most of it is just inexperience leading them to:

1) train players with low potential
2) train players with a too low starting base
3) train players with the wrong height
4) use trainers with silly levels that either bankrupt the team or dont get enough done
5) two position, three position or team train
6) switch trainees too often
7) don't manage minutes well so only one player is constantly getting 48+
8) concentrate far too long on one skill creating a reverse elastic effect and frequently making those JS monsters we see on the TL all the time with sensational JS and mediocre OD and JR

So we are discussing two different things.
You are saying they can't do it.
I say they can but they wont.

This is due to one or more of the blunders I have listed above. I'll give a simple example, a player I know was training a brilliant young trainee and put all his efforts into that one guy, he bought a level 6 trainer and nearly drove the team bankrupt paying $80,000 a week and eventually had to fire him and spent 2-3 weeks with a level 1 before he could afford a level 4. Madness!

The fact is that I HAVE made a profit on my trainees. Nobody has shown me a specific trainee built buy a new IV or V team that spent little money to acquire, can swear they didn'T spend a lot on their trainer, still had good record and the trainee worked out to have value on the transfer list which was greater than their investment. I've had some people talk theory about it, but no examples of an actual player. Maybe there is one and I am proven wrong. I would still offer if its possible, its not PROBABLE. Most people training at your level are in fact wasting their moeny.

I two-position trained these 5 players with an advanced trainer for 2 months back when I was clueless (you might argue I still am)

(18900431)
Bought: 32k
Sold: 110k

(18893919)
Bought: 153k
Sold: 357k

(13194457)
Bought: 200k
Sold: 400k

(17863127)
Bought: 122k
Sold: 250k

(17364118)
Bought: 200k
Sold: 300k

For a net profit of 710k. If you take away the cost of my advanced trainer: 14K*9 weeks = 126k, I made about 580k during one season of training. Subtracting the 3% transfer cost would lower that number to around 500k which is a good chunk of change for a D5 team.

More recently, I trained this player (19242940) for about 3 months with a level 4 trainer.

Bought: 132k
Sold: 413K

I trained him with two players I still have and both are worth more than what I paid for them.



Last edited by Arthur Monay at 10/6/2011 9:37:57 PM

Games won/lost is also an issue.

I haven't lost a league game during the last two seasons.

Like I said at the beginning, I was clueless at that point in my career. I went through this two-week daytrading phase where I would purchase a player, realize he was worthless, then sell him for more than I paid. I did pretty well until the transfer penalty started getting too high. Some of the players I presented as examples were steals and others I paid too much for. I did a lot of 1v1 training with a little OD on the players I mentioned. Most of the pops I got were purely cosmetic, BUT it was enough for me to make some money.

You trained retirees, NOT PLAYERS. I am training NT players. There is a difference BIG difference. And this is EXACTLY what I mean by you can't train at your level.

You're right, to an extent. The players I trained will have no impact at the national level, but they made me money and helped me advance. Still valuable. The point you almost made, before insulting me, was important: To make money on trainees or any player for that matter, you have to know when to list and at what price to set the minimum bid to get the highest transfer price possible.

I shoudl be nicer. I am sorry. I try to be nice...but I just can't I guess. I have a database at home of my flips. I'd go through my transfer list now, but tooo lazy. I can show you 700k profit in flips ina 2month period. Non-trainees. I guess I should ahve just said that, not been mean and go through your list picking apart player by player team by team. Probably embarrassing to see all your trainees retiring and/or stuck in d.V

Why do the decisions of other managers reflect poorly on me?


Last edited by Arthur Monay at 10/6/2011 11:04:42 PM

None of these guys are trained, some sold within a week. Basically you need to outpace this margin to prove training low value players works IMO, otherwise no way to know if it was the training or the savvy shopping/selling that earned profit. This is why I don't consider any player that retired a good example of successfull trianing.

That's what the players sold for, not the profit you made. The transfer penalty for daytrading becomes huge in a short amount of time. And now that you have to keep players for 1 financial update, daytrading is even less profitable.




Last edited by Arthur Monay at 10/6/2011 11:25:27 PM

April to May in 2010

The BB world has changed so much since then with the never ending flood of free agents greatly eroding the value of training and making it harder to flip players for a profit because those players you used to flip are now worth nothing and the players people now try to day trade have a much higher salary and with the new rules have to be kept for at least a week further eroding profits.

Factors
1) Free agents dramatically reducing the value of 90% of players
2) Cheap free agents making it harder for daytraders to land a sucker
3) Daytraders having to deal wih more expensive players so paying bigger salary bills
4) Minimum one week of wage payments

With all of these daytrading has been a lot less profitable but I can tell you one area where the sharks are still very active. Young NT potential trainees. As the coach of India U21 I have saved probably 100 + players from death (10 just last week) but so many of these young future talents get snapped up by daytraders. I release them within a few days of the initial sale and I get heaps of abuse from daytraders saying I have spoilt their profits.

Screw them! If they trained the players I wouldn't mind, but instead they let them rot for weeks while they continually relist them at unrealistic proces before they finally land a sucker. Then our great future NT prospect is in inept GS and has lost 4 weeks of training.

You are saying its easy to promote out of IV and V. So if someone promoted while training, did something easy then while training it doesn't prove training works.

To be perfectly clear, I am saying that it is possible to have league success and a training regime in the USA in V and move up into IV with continued success. I am not making a sweeping generalization about every nation's lower league level or saying that it is the only or optimal method even in the USA, just that it is absolutely possible in this specific set of leagues. If the original poster was in Lower Buttmunchistan's I.1, the scenario would be entirely different, and I wouldn't know or pretend to know what his situation was, nor would it really interest me enough to find out.

maybe its easy to promote in any case. My opinion is that those who save enough money/earn enough trading to invest fully in a training process are gonna do waaaay better. In V and IV USA your income is so low its hard to afford a level 6/7 trainer and top notch trainees. Even with a high level trainer if you don't know how to spot quality trainee versus broken trainee its hard to make a profit.

So you don't use a level 6/7 trainer or top notch trainees. You don't need to yet at that level. Heck, you can certainly survive and thrive *AT THOSE LEVELS* with two position training guards with lower potential, for example, *IF* you do it intelligently and build a team intelligently.

The fact is that I HAVE made a profit on my trainees. Nobody has shown me a specific trainee built buy a new IV or V team that spent little money to acquire, can swear they didn'T spend a lot on their trainer, still had good record and the trainee worked out to have value on the transfer list which was greater than their investment. I've had some people talk theory about it, but no examples of an actual player. Maybe there is one and I am proven wrong. I would still offer if its possible, its not PROBABLE. Most people training at your level are in fact wasting their moeny. ONe way to prove that is for you bandwagon guys to get a TPE on all your trainees and fess up how much you paid for them and how much you've been been paying your trainers

I'm not going to ask for TPEs because that's clearly a forum violation, and I can't post them because these guys don't have TPEs listed, but I think it's fair to assume that an 8/7/12/9/8/8 20yo guard likely is worth more than 55.4k, and I am certain that the amount of the trainer's salary allocated to him is likely less than the amount of additional salary of a replacement veteran with that level of OD, since he comes pre-loaded with a whole load of other expensive skills. Heck, even the crappy 5/7/12/8/7/6 guy is probably worth more than the 10k it cost to buy him. I'm not as sure about the 6/8/11/8/6/8 one, though, since he cost almost 160k initially.

Of course, because of the vast expenses of training guys like this (and a draft pick and a potential SF I have paid a lot more for and switched to 1-pos training for), I'm only pulling in roughly a 110k profit per week. I still am at least 8 days away from having an arena with at least 10000 seats, too, and I have actually now lost a league game in IV so clearly it's all doom and gloom for me. ;)