BuzzerBeater Forums

I wonder if it's possible come back to the old GE and at the same time run games with the new one to get a real feedback and analise what's wrong. I don't know if this consumes a lot of resources but...I think it's a good way to know the differences and check where the new GE is cracking. Sorry if this message is illegible,I'm posting from my mobile phone :)

3) One of the issues that has always existed in this engine is that the pace is too high; the typical NBA game has about 95 possessions, while in BuzzerBeater that number is often closer to 120. In the past, there have been too many possessions compared to an NBA game but also too much defense. We were trying to fix these things one step at a time in order to reduce the number of changes that come in all at the same time, and it's evident that the end result is that people are looking at the scores and saying their defense doesn't work anymore. I disagree; defense that concedes 101 points in 126 possessions, as I saw in the case of somebody who was complaining about the game engine, is actually quite good defense. It's just the 126 possessions that are fooling you.

the majority of users still uses fast paced attacks, who admittedly worked better in the old GE
maybe the increased quality of assisted shots has caused faster shots, increasing the number of possessions?

as I mention below, we're going to improve the situation before the next game day.




1) The key point here, I think, is that what you see at the moment is really half of a set of changes designed to improve the game engine. We wanted to make the changes gradual so that it would be easier to adapt, but the problem is that halfway leaves things out of balance temporarily

2) If your C or PF is listed as the defender against a smaller player, this is almost certainly because they are trying to block the shot as a help defender, not because they got caught up in a switch. If you are playing a zone defense, then your center will end up defending against a lot of inside shots no matter who takes them, but that's what you expected, right?

3) One of the issues that has always existed in this engine is that the pace is too high; the typical NBA game has about 95 possessions, while in BuzzerBeater that number is often closer to 120. In the past, there have been too many possessions compared to an NBA game but also too much defense. We were trying to fix these things one step at a time in order to reduce the number of changes that come in all at the same time, and it's evident that the end result is that people are looking at the scores and saying their defense doesn't work anymore. I disagree; defense that concedes 101 points in 126 possessions, as I saw in the case of somebody who was complaining about the game engine, is actually quite good defense. It's just the 126 possessions that are fooling you.


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Anyway, I think it's become clear that while trying to do this halfway represents a smaller leap, it leaves everybody confused. I suppose it's been too long since I've read von Clausewitz [surely somebody gets the reference, right?]. So, this leaves us with the choice of either doing things in very small jumps and recalibrating the whole engine every time (which, while time-consuming, might work, but which will also mess up some of the team rating to expected result calculations) or making these changes all at the same time (which will result in a more massive shift, but one in which the games on both ends will make a lot of sense).

We're discussing this shortly and we're going to do something before the next game day to make sure that the game engine is easier to understand.

So schedule is what really matters then? Boo. Yeah make engine different every game day to make it impossible to analyze thanks.

1)Are you serious? I can't believe you actually said that.

2)You should mentioned this somewhere before the changes took place. No just the way you did.

3) Number of posseison is not a problem. Missing team rebounds are problems. considering there are teams not training inside skills such a switch in importance unbalance game ... the hard way.

Overall you should consider gthose changes in connection with training. I t should be possible to cover your weakness by training at least partially no matter how focus the team is.

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You are just telling you don't want managers to retire cause that's what matters, don't you?

Things that are changing constantly are easier to uinderstand, of course... *roll eyes* Sometimes I think the only one who don't do long term planning are you, BBs.

Edit: Some of those issues works for me, some against me, just claryfing before someone accuse me of being biased. I just don't want to play with different engine each game. And yes the first game was horrible experience (not because the loss which was kibnd of expected).

Last edited by docend24 at 6/7/2009 9:42:05 AM

You should make announcements when to expect some trouble in what areas.
after changes announcement i thought that all changes are final when we began season 9. now i see that changes just keeps coming and thats why many are confused and upset.

p.s.
BB`s maybe need to hire PR-Manager lvl-7 :D

You should make announcements when to expect some trouble in what areas.
after changes announcement i thought that all changes are final when we began season 9. now i see that changes just keeps coming and thats why many are confused and upset.

p.s.
BB`s maybe need to hire PR-Manager lvl-7 :D

i think they have Doctor lvl 1 with Taping injuries at that place (existing due to a bug)

At the same time, the BB community is not our set of test subjects - we can run all the games we want to for testing, and it's our job to make sure that the game engine you see each day is the best one we can and yields the most enjoyable experience we can provide.

Well, my feeling is that:

This game engine was tested in scrimmages, and the community said there were some bugs, and they were fixed.

But the real point is that the managers dont put their good line-up on the scrimmages, so the real effect of the new game engine was really unpredictable.

By the way, you are comparing the possesions of the NBA and the BB, and what about the rebounds? It will be normally to see 60-80 rebounds per game :/?

And the worst thing, is that with this new game engine, is like trying to have a Lebron James or a Kobe Bryant or a Chauncey Billups in your team, players who are able to 30-40 points and can take rebounds or make asistances. Just take a look on the matches, a lot of teams ended with a player with more than 30-40 points.



Last edited by Marot at 6/7/2009 10:09:05 AM

3) One of the issues that has always existed in this engine is that the pace is too high; the typical NBA game has about 95 possessions, while in BuzzerBeater that number is often closer to 120. In the past, there have been too many possessions compared to an NBA game but also too much defense. We were trying to fix these things one step at a time in order to reduce the number of changes that come in all at the same time, and it's evident that the end result is that people are looking at the scores and saying their defense doesn't work anymore. I disagree; defense that concedes 101 points in 126 possessions, as I saw in the case of somebody who was complaining about the game engine, is actually quite good defense. It's just the 126 possessions that are fooling you.

I always felt like there were too many plays that didn't result in dead balls or turnovers. If this issue could be fixed, then three-point percentages could come up to where they should be, more shots could be assisted and the realistic rebounding/shotblocking model would work a lot better. Why is it so difficult to correct? I notice it's been a problem almost since day 1, since early BB scores resemble ABA games. This can't just be a matter of the pace at which teams play, because it's evident even when they use slower-paced offenses.

I don't see how this is going to fix the problem. There are too many possessions at this point -- not too few turnovers. If you convert some ill-advised last second shots into turnovers, you might be fixing the FG%, but you will get teams averaging 25 TO/game, which is another problem in its own right. That's what makes the situation difficult to correct.

To me, the solution lies in improving the effects of pace yet again: slow pace should work very well for good teams, so maybe an exponential effect on the quality of the shots created is in order. Weak teams should try to compensate their lack of skill by jacking as many shots as possible without too much loss of quality.

It seems that currently it works in the reverse, where bad teams should supposedly slow down the pace to make the opposition shoot less shots. And again, this is difficult to calibrate since how many shots your team takes directly affects the number of shots the opposition takes.

I think the new game engine shouldn't have gone out yet as well but I don't agree with the talk about it killing Look Inside.

In the old engine the zone was actually a man - man with a slight boost to inside or outside depending on tactic. That allowed you to mismatch your guards with IS cos most guards don't have ID. You could also do that with the big men though. A center could have JS and JR and because most centers didn't have OD they could shoot alot from outside.

Now it is working closer to a real zone. I.e. under the basket the big men guard the key. Beyond the arc the little guys do. My issue with zone is more how much a C will defend outside shots even in a 2 - 3. In 2 - 3 I don't know what kind of help would cause that? I also think the 1 - 3 - 1 has players in the wrong position but that might have been fixed.

The change in tactic for zone is how your team looks. If you have a 3 - 2 and your SF has low PD or lower than the PG and SG notice that the opposition will just keep jacking it up from one side (The SF side). This is realistic. You need a very even team to play zones now. I think due to how people train the zones are going to become a bottom league thing where most players are even and Man - Man will be more evident as you can align matchups which is what we where doing in the old zone with a bonus.

If you ask me (which you don't) this actually matches the real world more. NBA is a man - man league (I know, no real examples). In Australia (We aren't that crash hot) we love our zones. So the better a team gets the more they move away from a zone. Its good. When we have man - man with defensive matchups I will be in heaven.

That doesn't take away from the fact that the new game engine has too many rebounds. There aren't any changes of possessions from ball hitting backboard or flying out of court etc..

Also real world you slow down the pace to reduce the margin between you and the oppositions score. If they shoot better. Make them shoot less I don't see a problem with this.

I like the idea just wish it was tinkered with before it was released. Don't look at my games. That outcome was expected and not weird.