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100% respect for you but...

As the only outside team in the NBBA

doesnt that just sum up the problem as well as explain ur success

if 15/16 teams r inside teams wouldnt every manager build their teams 2 stop inside attacks not outside attacks so the 1 guy who is outside actually ironically has the advntage by running the worse tactic lol :D

That's why I said entire payroll and not just the bigs. If you play outside tactics, your outsidep players take bigger paycheck. And ditto for inside offenses. So your backcourt would have less salary than now, and that salary would transfer to the bigs. Basically same payroll.

You don't have to worry about ID on your bigs, as opponent's bigs will score almost equally good against ID 10 and ID 12 while the difference in salary is not negligible. You can somewhat compensate with OD and better RB on bigs.

My expected salary after this season's training probably comes close to 350k, so let's go with that. I'm not nearly good enough a manager to come up with a reasonable inside-focused team concept at 350k that can compete with a well-built inside team with 750k salaries. I don't want to say that it can't be done - I think USA Elite may have pulled it off, or came darned close - but I just can't see making it work myself. It'd be like taking a knife to a gunfight.

On the other hand, my team as currently comprised has already been competitive (well, and got a win that's probably fortunate) against one 750k team, and been reasonably competitive against other teams with much higher salaries and probably better managers as well. It's pretty much been a direct response to the "it can't be done" rhetoric around trying to beat LI with an outside offense. I'm certain I'm never going to get as far with this as SM got with his Motion team, and I don't presume to think that my experience changes the fact that LI is broken at the absolute top levels of this game. My goal is simply to show that at the levels 99% of users can aspire to, it's quite possible indeed for an outside offense (and really, Princeton!) to be competitive with LI, if you build it right. And since I haven't quite built it right yet, it may just succeed. ;)

*yawn*

Clearly, it's impossible to compete with a high salary LI team with an outside offense unless you have NT-level defense. I mean, look at:
(59082488)

This is an unfair example of LI dominance, since the road team started three bigs at SF, PF and C with more combined salary than the entire home team's roster. Look at how those 100k+ big men tear apart the sub-25k salary players they're going against... wait, what? The outside team won?

Just playing devil's advocate with this example.

Home vs Road. 6 players vs a deep bench, 3 of his starters playing the entire game. Ratings show that his guards don't have very high OD and they played the entire game. Bad combination IMO. We can't see stamina, gameshape or enthusiasm for last week to know how they effected the outcome either.

Not exactly a huge surprise in my eyes that you won this game and even then, it was close.


Last edited by Beener not Beanerz at 8/28/2013 10:32:46 AM

SB drove up the salary of a big man as much as a primary skills,but is not necessary as a primary skill.
Look at the salaries say little about the strength of a team

SB itself is not expensive - it costs less than the other three inside skills. Where it hurts is that when you look at a 15-15-15-5 build and raise SB to 15 the cost skyrockets, and since so few people ever even consider cutting out IS, ID or RB, the myth persists.

*yawn*

Clearly, it's impossible to compete with a high salary LI team with an outside offense unless you have NT-level defense. I mean, look at:
(59082488)

This is an unfair example of LI dominance, since the road team started three bigs at SF, PF and C with more combined salary than the entire home team's roster. Look at how those 100k+ big men tear apart the sub-25k salary players they're going against... wait, what? The outside team won?

Just playing devil's advocate with this example.

Home vs Road. 6 players vs a deep bench, 3 of his starters playing the entire game. We can't see stamina, gameshape or enthusiasm for last week to know how they effected the outcome either.

Not exactly a huge surprise in my eyes that you won this game and even then, it was close.

Oh, that all played a part. And it's a fortunate win - I fell back more than 10 in the second half of the fourth quarter and had a late surge to win. I could point out that his bench scored more than mine and my four backups were all -9 or worse, but the stamina could well explain the late fourth quarter push. But I've played enough games against some pretty sturdy big men and different variants of inside attack (some higher flow, some high raw scoring) to say that the supposed unstoppability of LI may well be true at the elite B3 level, but it's not true at whatever levels I've reached to date.

LMFAO

I'm thankful for such a comprehensive argumentation of your thoughts on my statement. You must be very mature and experienced.

My answer is more sensible than your statements.Everyone who has played at half-decent level in BB can see the difference between having a 10 and a 12 ID on their big mans

If you have all the answers on what works and what doesn't, why are you still in D3 20 seasons into your BB career?

Of course higher ID is better, that's not the point. What people are discussiing here is how to build players differently under a cost effective model. We're discussing at what point training more ID becomes ineffective in terms of bang for your buck.


Last edited by Beener not Beanerz at 8/28/2013 10:59:07 AM

SB drove up the salary of a big man as much as a primary skills,but is not necessary as a primary skill.
Look at the salaries say little about the strength of a team

SB itself is not expensive - it costs less than the other three inside skills. Where it hurts is that when you look at a 15-15-15-5 build and raise SB to 15 the cost skyrockets, and since so few people ever even consider cutting out IS, ID or RB, the myth persists.

There is no reason to cut IS,ID or REB,unless you are building a SF/PF(then you can cut REB,but then it would not make sense to train much SB) or a very specialized defensive player for outside tactics(then you could cut IS)
So it's not a myth,it's a matter of fact that SB is too expensive for what brings to a player and for what you got to pay in the general scheme of the economy of a team

So it's not a myth,it's a matter of fact that SB is too expensive for what brings to a player and for what you got to pay in the general scheme of the economy of a team

LMFAO.


Last edited by Beener not Beanerz at 8/28/2013 11:03:35 AM

LMFAO

I'm thankful for such a comprehensive argumentation of your thoughts on my statement. You must be very mature and experienced.

My answer is more sensible than your statements.Everyone who has played at half-decent level in BB can see the difference between having a 10 and a 12 ID on their big mans

If you have all the answers on what works and what doesn't, why are you still in D3 20 seasons into your BB career?

Of course higher ID is better, that's not the point. What people are discussiing here is how to build players differently under a cost effective model. We're discussing at what point training more ID becomes ineffective in terms of bang for your buck.

There are a lot of experienced manager in Italy,and I can't claim to be better than all of them for sure...and no one of them would say that there is no difference between 10 ID and 12 ID
To Build a player efficiently,ID and OD are the first skills to train.No matter what kind of team do you want to build on offense,you'll always need defense for your team
10 ID isn't a level acceptable for big mans even in III/high Iv divisions of the better countries in the world,so there isn't nothing to discuss.Even if you don't want to pump ID too much,if you want to build a very good player yo got to go much further than 10 or 12 ID

There are a lot of experienced manager in Italy,and I can't claim to be better than all of them for sure...and no one of them would say that there is no difference between 10 ID and 12 ID

The poster your responded too didn't say there was no difference between 10 and 12. Try reading his statement again.

There are a lot of experienced manager in Italy,and I can't claim to be better than all of them for sure...and no one of them would say that there is no difference between 10 ID and 12 ID

The poster your responded too didn't say there was no difference between 10 and 12. Try reading his statement again.

But it can't exist any debatement about how building a player that is cost effective that sees a reduction of ID to such a low level
Defenses are good to train to high level in any cost efficiency model