BuzzerBeater Forums

You are saying its easy to promote out of IV and V. So if someone promoted while training, did something easy then while training it doesn't prove training works.

To be perfectly clear, I am saying that it is possible to have league success and a training regime in the USA in V and move up into IV with continued success. I am not making a sweeping generalization about every nation's lower league level or saying that it is the only or optimal method even in the USA, just that it is absolutely possible in this specific set of leagues. If the original poster was in Lower Buttmunchistan's I.1, the scenario would be entirely different, and I wouldn't know or pretend to know what his situation was, nor would it really interest me enough to find out.

maybe its easy to promote in any case. My opinion is that those who save enough money/earn enough trading to invest fully in a training process are gonna do waaaay better. In V and IV USA your income is so low its hard to afford a level 6/7 trainer and top notch trainees. Even with a high level trainer if you don't know how to spot quality trainee versus broken trainee its hard to make a profit.

So you don't use a level 6/7 trainer or top notch trainees. You don't need to yet at that level. Heck, you can certainly survive and thrive *AT THOSE LEVELS* with two position training guards with lower potential, for example, *IF* you do it intelligently and build a team intelligently.

The fact is that I HAVE made a profit on my trainees. Nobody has shown me a specific trainee built buy a new IV or V team that spent little money to acquire, can swear they didn'T spend a lot on their trainer, still had good record and the trainee worked out to have value on the transfer list which was greater than their investment. I've had some people talk theory about it, but no examples of an actual player. Maybe there is one and I am proven wrong. I would still offer if its possible, its not PROBABLE. Most people training at your level are in fact wasting their moeny. ONe way to prove that is for you bandwagon guys to get a TPE on all your trainees and fess up how much you paid for them and how much you've been been paying your trainers

I'm not going to ask for TPEs because that's clearly a forum violation, and I can't post them because these guys don't have TPEs listed, but I think it's fair to assume that an 8/7/12/9/8/8 20yo guard likely is worth more than 55.4k, and I am certain that the amount of the trainer's salary allocated to him is likely less than the amount of additional salary of a replacement veteran with that level of OD, since he comes pre-loaded with a whole load of other expensive skills. Heck, even the crappy 5/7/12/8/7/6 guy is probably worth more than the 10k it cost to buy him. I'm not as sure about the 6/8/11/8/6/8 one, though, since he cost almost 160k initially.

Of course, because of the vast expenses of training guys like this (and a draft pick and a potential SF I have paid a lot more for and switched to 1-pos training for), I'm only pulling in roughly a 110k profit per week. I still am at least 8 days away from having an arena with at least 10000 seats, too, and I have actually now lost a league game in IV so clearly it's all doom and gloom for me. ;)

Rather than quoting that whole thing, I'll just answer the two parts that really are relevant to me.

1. I could probably get a TPE in a fed (if I had supporter) or asked plenty of people for one. Of course, I'm not done with those guys yet, so I really don't think a TPE really matters.

2. As far as the whole FA process and trading in general, I'm not arguing with you at all on that. I do think that if you're interested in playing with the type of players that transient teams create, of course, the glut of FAs makes it pretty easy to find them cheaply.

You've made some great points in this thread; your knowledge of the ins and outs of this game is vast and I'm not going to question any of the recent points you've made.

With respect to this daytrading vs. training in lower divisions, I don't think you're looking at the entire picture:

1. Daytrading is too time-intensive for the average user. Also, with the new transfer rules and lack of funds available to new teams, this option isn't all that realistic.

2. At the D4 and D5 levels, it's hard to screw up training: avoid JS, focus on OD, and sprinkle in a little PA and 1v1.

3. Training your own players accomplishes two things:
a. You can use all of your profits to build your arena and increase income.
b. Your roster is more valuable than the weekly salary paid.

4. A team's value isn't solely determined by TPEs of it's players. Arena size plays a part as well.

Hrudey's team (30851) is a perfect example of what 2,3, and 4 can do in a short amount of time.

Strictly focusing on training has allowed him to put 1.5 million dollars into expanding his arena. This is only in 2 full seasons, mind you. Pretty impressive. It's not like he's been one position training, either.

His low team salary, which his team vastly outperforms, allows him to pull 110k in weekly profits as he earlier reported. He's going to have a serious nest egg when he promotes to D.3.

Contrasting this with you're friend (30254) shows how advantageous training can be, even if we take into account his recent inactivity.

Even for a more average user like me, training has been profitable. The painstakingly anal process you went through of ripping apart my transfers ignored the fact that non-NT caliber players still have value. Each of the players I sold were more than capable of capping, which is why they sold for the prices they did.

I build my arena soooper fast.

I don't think you can be an example here, because the division you started in made your first year a lot easier economically.

You mght wantto take another look at my buddies roster after the acquisitions. DMIs puts Hrudeys best players at around 120 and 90 DMI. Salary around 10k realm. My buddy has DMIs and salaries which double or triple. I really don7t like the SF he is selling though. I guess thats why he is selling! LOL

You and I are looking at this from two different points of view. Your friend's players are certainly better and more valuable, but both teams are accomplishing the same task: destroying their league. Why spend any more money than you have to? Your friend is wasting 70k each week on excess salary, so the daytrading he is doing is only making up that gap, not making him any money.

To post the same profit margins as hrudey, your friend would have to make a combined 110k in profits each week from daytrading and revenue. And that's pretty tough to do, if not impossible.

Last edited by Arthur Monay at 10/7/2011 7:45:59 PM

You mght wantto take another look at my buddies roster after the acquisitions. DMIs puts Hrudeys best players at around 120 and 90 DMI. Salary around 10k realm. My buddy has DMIs and salaries which double or triple. I really don7t like the SF he is selling though. I guess thats why he is selling! LOL

I'm not sure those are necessarily my 'best' players, just the highest salary/DMI ones. And I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know far better than me when I point out that there are plenty of nearly-free skills for certain positions, which impact salary very little (and DMI, as it appeared to be calibrated so DMI at proficient GS = 10 times calculated salary, though I don't know if the DMI formula was adjusted when the seasonal salary ones are updated). And often, those "free" skills are also not directly reflected in match ratings. But they sure do seem to matter when the games are actually played!

So, yeah, I'm not exactly rocking the 30k salary centers with pitiful handling or forwards with inept defense or whatever else. When you set a TL search to average+ handling, passing and OD and best position C or PF, (well, and for me, narrowed to Americans, though that's of dubious value), you find some guys that are really quite poor indeed, the occasional guys who are extremely good and extremely expensive both in transfer fee and salary, and the guys in the 8-12k salary range who might have just enough skill at the big man positions to fit into my lineup. Beyond that, though, I'd much rather carry about 80-90k/week in salary and put a lot of money into the arena now, rather than 150k+ in salary, the transfer fees to bring those guys in.