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So do you think that any US team will even come close to the B3 title in the next 10 seasons?

The only way to win B3 in a large country like US is to tank starting from NBBA and dropping some series... being a good day-trader helps a lot too. The main problem is that in order to win B3 you need to pay 1.5M+ for weekly salaries, and that means losing tons of money... you have to burn everything you have in your bank account. As you can see the iranian team has a ~1.7M roster which he can afford without any problem only after 6 seasons he has been in a B3 finals. That means he can afford 1 or 2 seasons at the top of B3 only after 6 seasons of "tanking" (in his country first division)... nothing like that can be done in the NBBA.

Basically someone from the USA needs to model their team similar to what Dionysus has done in China.

He has 4 of the top 8 players in China on the national team.
His players are well rounded. He carries only one foreigner.
He has profited 11 million on his trading activities.

As of right now, I see only one team in the NBBA with a roster that could evolve into a Dionysus type roster and he just posted on this topic.

I know one NBBA team that is growing fast and using a good strategy to get to the top, but it does not include building a franchise of home NT players yet. However it has worked stunningly well to get him there in 8 seasons.

BUT Mamba started when guys were selling for 100X their salary. So profiting off the transfer wire was more abundant than it is now.

The thing about Mamba888 is he won the China Tournament in his 8th season. He won his first B3 in his 12th season.
During his first China Tourney run, most of his players were outside China. However, 2 of his players were on the team and still are in Season 24- 10 seasons later as guards. During his first B3 title run he had added to more China born players. Not until the last 2 B3 titles was he mainly all-chin.

So i think its possible for a USA team to win the B3. However, I don't believe anyone is on course to do so anytime soon.


Just FYI with a more restrictive trading activity format, teams like Dionysus probably wouldn't win the B3 as much. Teams from micronations would do better as they would need to rely on a homegrown economy. IMO the best way to become a top team is to sell players for way over their value in a top nation while building a good economic backbone and grabbing talented youth in your home nation. In a micronation the strategy is to tank/rebuild as that is easier/more profitable.

Overall the playing field needs leveled a bit. Some ideas would be to reduce the ticket pricing values in smaller nations, and restricting transfers in some ways (number of bids before sale/number of times player allowed on market).

Last edited by lawrenman at 7/10/2013 12:22:52 PM

I dunno. I think the whole "buy a scrub 18 yo with decent potential for 1k, let him sit on your bench for a month, list him for 90k and make sure to post him in the country's player ads thread" is definitely taking over. All we need is for some brave American team to pick up the mantle and sell them for 50k instead, but in higher volume, and all our woes will be cured.

Yeah, I am pretty much set on the list them until they sell really high for a huge profit strategy. Because economically that is by far the fastest way to improve a team Really interesting technique requiring extensive research and planning. (Huge Sarcasm)

Last edited by lawrenman at 7/10/2013 11:10:32 PM

You appear to think that he's legitimately selling all of these players. I think the majority of the people (myself included) are more of the opinion that it's likely the result of multi-accounting. Either way, definitely something fishy going on, and remember that if you do get an obvious overbid you are technically required by the rules of conduct to report it as cheating (even if no one ever does). So I would caution against trying that "daytrade the scrubs" strategy.

@Coolbobj: I'm not trying to be a hater, but let's call it what it is: sarcastically or not, you have been critical of the USA NT in other threads and at the very least implicitly critical of the NBBA teams for not winning B3 in this thread. That sort of sarcasm doesn't really help or amuse anyone, which would really be the only respectable reason to be sarcastic IMO. This sort of sarcastic criticism seems to me at least to be really just a passive-aggressive way to voice actual complaints. And frankly, those sort of complaints offend all of the dedicated U.S. managers who put serious time and effort into trying to make the NT the best it can possibly be, and they send a poor message to any new or inexperienced USA managers who may see them. So while you're certainly entitled to say what you will, I would just ask that you tone down your criticism or complaint.

I do agree on your thoughts on that Chinese team. His transfer history is very shady. I wonder if anyone has reported him.

I wasn't completely serious in my criticism. That being said, it's obvious that the NT is going in the wrong direction. I'll try to tone it down and not be so harsh. But sometimes it is what it is.

I would assume if the top team in the world did it 2 out of the last 4 seasons it was legal. When I saw the players he was grabbing and the prices he was asking for them, I assumed that what he was doing made reasonable sense as the player would ultimately go for more the further from the draft the sale happened.

There are some simple measures that would prevent this sort of trading.

1) Require 1-2 bids for a sale to work (have it be random so that people wouldn't bid on their own player) 50/50 makes sense
2) Limit the number of times a player can be listed in a season by one team

When I see how teams get to the NBBA and how top teams in the world trade, I start to assume pricing above market rate is a reasonable strategy. I don't know how teams that trade that way could be missed by the people running the game.


Last edited by lawrenman at 7/10/2013 10:56:34 PM

the player would ultimately go for more the further from the draft the sale happened.

In a competitive market (without cheating), the player actually should go for less the further from the draft the sale happened. Most managers have already acquired/fixed their trainees by then, so demand is significantly less. Also, the supply of quality trainees is significantly less, since most of the prospects on the market are those of resellers, who have not bothered to train them well (if at all), so they are behind where they should be. An 18yo with 50 skill points immediately after the draft is significantly more valuable than an 18yo with the same 50 skill points at the all-star break (when he should have at least 55+ if given 48+ single-position weekly). I'm no economist, but lower demand + poorer supply ≠ higher prices last I checked.

I would assume if the top team in the world did it 2 out of the last 4 seasons it was legal

The trades have been noticed. Teams like Dionysus (we all know who we're talking about here) have been reported a lot , according to the GMs. But the thing is, technically we can't prove that he's cheating; everything is circumstantial. We can say it is improbable or even statistically impossible, but any smart cheater uses a proxy so the GMs can't catch them based on their IP and doesn't transfer to the same team twice. So he can't be banned under the whole "innocent until proven guilty" theory, even though I think most users would agree with me when I say that what he's doing appears to be so unrealistic as to be inconceivable under normal circumstances.

I totally agree with your suggestions.

When I see how teams get to the NBBA

Actually, if you check most of the teams in the NBBA, you'll see that they didn't get to the top by reselling. Probably the NBBA's richest team, King Drive Ballers, actually has a negative transfer balance of -$24 million. They made their money over many seasons (some of which had no salary floor). The one team that's an exception is just that-an outlier.

I disagree with some of your statement. The market is completely flooded the first day of trading drafted players (huge supply). To be honest, it becomes increasingly difficult to find a high skill point player at a good price after that. The people looking to add players are normally "newer" teams. Those that started during the season and those that don't know that the market is flooded on about 3 days each season. For instance there are only 2 players on the TL with 51+ SP at age 19 superstar or better on sale for less than 50K and one is injured for 5 weeks. I'm sure there were hundreds the first few days of the season.

Supply is less overall (we both agree)
Demand is less overall (we both agree) - but demand from teams which are less experienced makes a greater share...

I myself will never sell a rookie as soon as aquire him. I prefer to wait until the market is quieter (less supply competition). Thus as the seller I can sell using a "Buy it now" strategy (Think Ebay on a low supply/low demand item)

Also I will not list someone for $1...unless I know I don't need to "market" him IE: he will sell on his own. (Again picture a high demand item on Ebay)

Anyway the only reason I am doing this trading strategy is because I think its bullshit. I have already provided very implementable rules to prevent it.

I am sure I could dig up more examples of trading activities that I would question. Maybe not "all" NBBA teams. But if you dig deep enough into their transaction history...well There are examples and it was more prevalent in earlier seasons.

But I don't think upsetting fellow players is the right thing to do. The best thing to do is simply rewrite the game code some and remove a rule that is vague at best.

Last edited by lawrenman at 7/11/2013 12:00:02 AM

I know this is a thread about USA teams but if Dionysus played Venomous Scorpions , who would win ?