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Someone has just used a 2-3 zone to win both the semi-finals and the finals of the B3 tournament and become world effin champions... and you're still saying that 2-3 zone doesn't work?

EEEEEEEEEEEEEH?

Someone has just used a 2-3 zone to win both the semi-finals and the finals of the B3 tournament and become world effin champions... and you're still saying that 2-3 zone doesn't work?

EEEEEEEEEEEEEH?

Before I explain myself, a disclaimer first: Please no KNEE-JERK reactions! Read the whole post and think about it before you reply. If you don't agree, present arguments. If you just want to vent, do it somewhere else.

That's what I'm saying: 2-3 zone might work, but this year's B3 isn't proof for that (this is MY OPINION). B3 champion won four games prior to the finals with 25.5 point of difference. The only one who could give him a run for his money was the finalist, who lost for 3 points, and he didn't have an optimal team - his SG was sub-par.

Don't get me wrong: I think this year's B3 champion built a terrific team. He lowered salaries of his players by making certain skills weaker, but 2-3 zone hid those weaknesses perfectly. However, you should note that despite playing 2-3 in semifinals and finals, he had 2 blocks between those games combined. This means a team like Dyonisius, who like Mloty Stargard built perfect players for Look inside but also had enough JS/JR on positions 1-3, probably smashes the 2-3 zone presented in this year's finals.

The proof is Mloty won by just 3 against suboptimal team. I realize his opponent had roughly 400k in salaries more, so if Mloty have had 1.3M roster, he would beat the hell out of him. However, we saw time and time again 2-3 cannot stop Look inside if the LI player has enough JS/JR on positions 1-3. Recently we tested 2-3 a lot in a PL and got constantly burned by good outside shooters even if they were playing LI. It didn't matter if defenders in 2-3 had high OD, high SB and whatnot.

Oh and don't let me forget one more thing...Mloty played in cup finals that took place 6 days before B3 finals, so he carried more enthusiasm over those 6 days than the other finalist.

Once more, for disclaimer: If you think I'm downgrading Mloty or complaining about 2-3, or any other nonsense, please stay away from replying. I don't care for your venting. I care for a healthy and constructive debate. If I'm wrong and you prove it, I'll admit it (I always did).

Even if this is not the best example the 2-3 zone has indeed improved.

It forces a better distribution of shots, limiting inside players to a small amount of good shots and making the opposite team take jumpers that are very innefective in look inside offence.

If you have the weapon to counter that either by passing or having terrific shooters you should be able to counter the zone, in the end that is what happens in real life.

I agree completely. Mloty is showing the direction we have to take in order to try to make 2-3 work. It's another question if it will work against LI with 19/13 shooters from 1-3, but we'll have to see. I'm still of the opinion it won't work, because even if you stop inside players completely with added SB, outside shooting more than compensates for that.

Gongrats to the champion for an amazing achievement!

@Koperboy,

i understand your view point, but if it takes 19/13 outside shooters, on top of everything else, for LI to beat a well structured 2-3 defense, then that's the biggest confirmation the tactic, certain criteria met of course, works.
I doubt there are many teams out there, that can afford these extra and costly skills to start with, let alone deciding to risk building such teams.
Apart from the economical disfunction of such an attempt, there is the tactical as well. Cause if someone risks it and builds such a team to attack 2-3 zones, he may very well end up being vulnerable to man to man!
If the ballhandling guards of a LI team have 19/13s, it is a very likely scenario, the ball not being fed inside enough, since the dominating attribute of the ballhandlers is jump shooting, instead the guards taking far more and contested jump shots, than any LI set up would like them to take.

Cause if someone risks it and builds such a team to attack 2-3 zones, he may very well end up being vulnerable to man to man!

Sorry to blow up your claim; I wish it was true because that's how it works in real life. I don't know if you saw Dyonisius players two seasons ago; he showed the skills of his players after winning B3 finals. Player with highest Passing had PA...

...Prolific (11) (11819545)
20 in OD, HA and PA. IS=15, PA=11, 18/10 shooting and only 135k of salary. His stat line: 7-10, 5 rb, 5 ast. With 19/13 shooting his salary increases to around 170k. He killed the M2M and 2-3 defense. Oh, and he'd have 134 skillpoints, which is not so hard to achiever on a player with good entry skills (it would take 8 seasons to train such a guy)

I'm still waiting to see a 2-3 defense that can deal with player of his caliber.

Last edited by Koperboy at 12/20/2013 9:46:22 AM

Player with highest Passing had PA...

...Prolific (11) (11819545)
20 in OD, HA and PA. IS=15, PA=11, 18/10 shooting and only 135k of salary.

I assume that the bolded PA above was supposed to be DR, because otherwise it would make no sense. ;)

As far as the general topic for discussion, I think it's fair to say that 2-3 should at least be elevated in the consensus opinion from worthless to be considered a useful tactic in specific situations. It's still not universally an improvement the way the outside zones are, though.

Thanks for the reply.

Taking aside how uncommon and hard it is to build such a team and extra salary expenses required, purely tactically, based on the data you provided i would really like your expert opinion:

Do you believe that the aforementioned player(in LI tactic) would function better for his team against man to man, with JS/JR 19-13 and IS 15 or like he was 18/10 and 15?

Since we're in the process of adding skills for conversational purposes, would you prefer the same player with 19/13 (plus four)outside and 15 inside or keeping the 18-10 outside and going (two up)17 inside?

I'm no expert, I'm just a guy who loves the game and tests a lot (not very recently though). I hope you didn't mean that in a sarcastic way.

Anyway, I'm of the opinion that as long as guy's IS is high enough, I'm fine also with JS 19/JR 13. And we are talking about PG/SG only. It gives you lots of flexibility, as you can play him at PF for Patient for occasional surprise.
When I have time, I'll brake down the shots from PG and SG from Dyonisius against 2/3 and compare those to Mloty's opponents, playing against 2-3. The main difference I'm sure to find out if high IS.

High IS makes guards go for dunks and tough inside shots, which are much more difficult to defend than driving layups. That and high JS/JR is the main difference between Mloty's opponents and Dyonisius players.

Last edited by Koperboy at 12/20/2013 11:38:09 AM

Οk man, thanks.
Looking forward to the comparison data and your conclusions.

look inside with 19 shooters from 1-3 would suck, it would make your small forward a jumpshooter and you dont want that. Also shooting is really expensive at the 3 position.

18 for PG/SG and 15 for SF would have done it here. Or even better passing.