BuzzerBeater Forums

Jordan never gave up a 15 pt lead in the 4th quarter at home in the Finals!

And he doesn't need to travel to make a good play.

A few things...
- I disagree with your "tougher players" in MJ's era. They officiated differently. Matter of fact, they changed the officiating to BENEFIT Jordan, not the other way around (like... Wilt for example).
- I do agree with you on fewer "power centers", but I'd suggest that there are more than just Howard/Gasol Jr.
- I disagree on Westbrook being a SG-turned-to-PG. He's simply still in the learning process of the game.

Your last point is very good: a lot of these "next MJ" comparisons aren't as good as Kareem/Wilt/Magic/Bird/Russell... forget MJ.

LOL dude....lebron has been better than kobrick for the last 3-4 years,seriously...
Lebron is not on Jordans level but we should only debate after Lebrons career is over..

That's a contradiction. Unfair to compare to Jordan, yet you feel it's ok to compare to Kobe?
LeBron's in his prime now, and he's yet to do anything like Kobe did in his prime.

how do you not see that MJ's era had tougher players? There were so many players that rivaled one another along with their teams. There isn't that physical rival presence in todays game because its all about finesse and flash. The only thing i see/saw anything remotely tough in todays game was that Pacers v Pistons game where the Pacers players went AWOL on the Pistons fans other than that we have a big guys like Bynum and Artest picking on a much smaller guy in JJ Barea, that's just weak and chump status. Charles Barkley hands down then is tougher than any player today PERIOD.

and as with the officiating, all sports protect and covet their stars from NFL protecting their QBs like Tom Brady, to the recent MLB trying to protect catchers like Buster Posey and Joe Mauer (trying to put them in different fielding positions for longer lasting careers). Kobe Bryant has gotten away with many calls and now Lebron James has definitely without a doubt seen many calls go his way never mind ESPN and David Stern put him on a pedestal giving him the "The Decision". Oh and if anyone had any effect on NBA rules it was Wilt dunking from the free throw line, along with widening the lane in an attempt to keep him and his finger-roll farther from the goal, implementing the offensive-goaltending rule and revising the rules regarding inbounding and free throws

and i would say that MOST if not every analyst would tell you that russell westbrook has always been a shoot guard as in his two years with the UCLA Bruins their PG was Darren Collison. so yes Russell Westbrook is a SG being turned into a PG and if you were following the commentating during the Mavs v Thunders series, all the analysts talked about how he isn't a point guard

as for the MJ comparisons, dude i've never ever heard people say who's the next Wilt or the next Larry Bird.

Gee... here's a surprise: a guy with your pseudonym leaping to Jordan's defense! Hehe... I kid. As stated before, I'm of the opinion that Jordan well-deserves his GOAT status... just so as we're clear on that!

how do you not see that MJ's era had tougher players? There were so many players that rivaled one another along with their teams. There isn't that physical rival presence in todays game because its all about finesse and flash. The only thing i see/saw anything remotely tough in todays game was that Pacers v Pistons game where the Pacers players went AWOL on the Pistons fans other than that we have a big guys like Bynum and Artest picking on a much smaller guy in JJ Barea, that's just weak and chump status. Charles Barkley hands down then is tougher than any player today PERIOD.

Tougher... because you say so? In lieu of anything beyond anecdotes, let's look at the facts: the main thing that's different about the game now is the way it is officiated. Players CANNOT do what they did in the 80s/early-90s because they will get hammered by officials, when "back in the day" it'd be let go. No blood, no foul... right?
It's that simple, isn't it?
Someone frequently accused of being soft throughout his career - Dirk Nowitzki - recently said
"What's tough? Punching someone in the face or hitting the contested shot at the end of a game?"

And surely you're not asserting that Ron Artest isn't "tough"...

Oh and if anyone had any effect on NBA rules it was Wilt dunking from the free throw line, along with widening the lane in an attempt to keep him and his finger-roll farther from the goal, implementing the offensive-goaltending rule and revising the rules regarding inbounding and free throws

Isn't that my point? Wilt had rule-changes come into existence to stop him. MJ had rule-changes come into existence to help him.

and i would say that MOST if not every analyst would tell you that russell westbrook has always been a shoot guard as in his two years with the UCLA Bruins their PG was Darren Collison. so yes Russell Westbrook is a SG being turned into a PG and if you were following the commentating during the Mavs v Thunders series, all the analysts talked about how he isn't a point guard

Surely that's at least a little bit of an exaggeration. Listen to Ryen Russillo on ESPN's NBA Today podcast. Russell Westbrook is still very much a player in development. That along with the presence of Collison at UCLA meant that he had to play at SG. Just because of that doesn't mean that we should pigeon-hole him into a role that neither he nor OKC particularly want.
Sure, he has a lot of work to do, especially in the decision making process... but even if we call him an SG, that doesn't excuse him taking that many shots when Kevin Durant's on the floor with him.

as for the MJ comparisons, dude i've never ever heard people say who's the next Wilt or the next Larry Bird.

Ummm... you're not reading.
I stated that these guys we're currently comparing to MJ aren't as good as the aforementioned players. It was merely a throw-away comment on how laughable it is that we continually look for the next greatest, when the reality is that those examined generally fall a long way short of guys who themselves a bit off 'being Jordan'.

But on your comment: you mustn't have been reading/watching/listening to the media lately. The comparisons of Nowitzki to Bird have been rife.

Last edited by malice at 6/5/2011 1:36:50 AM

Yes it is ok to compare them because they both are still playing...lebron was putting up better stats in his second year than bryant LOL.Also don't you dare to bring up rings or any stuff like that because lakers have freaking 90m roster and ofcourse they just got swept LOL.
http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/kobebryantvslebron.htm
Read this...

Look, its hard to argue with six rings. But I'm old enough to remember the Bull before they were a dominate team and when they struggled in the playoffs or were getting spanked by Isiah and the Bad Boys from Detroit. Jordan has perhaps the best player ever...certainly the best 2 guard I've ever seen, but I think its debatable. Jordan had a number of years where his team wasn't a contender -- so I think its unfair to expect Lebron, Kobe or anyone else to make their teams a contender every single season.

Yes it is ok to compare them because they both are still playing...lebron was putting up better stats in his second year than bryant LOL.Also don't you dare to bring up rings or any stuff like that because lakers have freaking 90m roster and ofcourse they just got swept LOL.
http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/kobebryantvslebron.htm
Read this...

Talk about a response fraught with contradictions!
Firstly, Kobe and LeBron are in very different stages of their careers. If you want to compare them, fine - but at least do so with balance. Because at the end of the day - all that matters is the rings. Everything else is window-dressing.

Secondly, let's have a look at your somewhat contradictory post.
* Don't bring up rings, but bring up stats... so the most important statistic of them all - winning - is irrelevant?
* Situations only matter when you say they do? You deride Kobe for playing with a good roster, but praise LeBron for statistical accumulation. You do realise why LeBron accumulated those stats, right? And why LA got rings? Better roster. You can't discount one and keep the other.
* Individual vs team... Again, you choose to highlight LeBron's individual awards, but downplay Kobe's team-based ones. Completely unfair.
* Lies, damn lies... and statistics. You can compile all the stats you like, but LeBron had 2 teams that won over 60 regulation season games in a season... and fell flat in the playoffs.

Kobe has how many rings now? And when the sun sets, that's all that matters. LeBron will no doubt get a championship, maybe even multiple ones. But it's taken a run to Dwyane Wade's team with Chris Bosh to get 'em. And that, will pretty much damn him in the GOAT conversation forever more.

Last edited by malice at 6/5/2011 5:36:19 AM

Also you can talk about the never ending chokes of queen james.

I'm not a lebron fan. I do think he is a good player, and i do agree that he has a lot more to show.


However, in order to begin this comparison, lebron should have stayed in cleveland, and go against any other team with everything he's got and also help his teammates evolve. lebron is less worried about helping a team, then he is to win a championship, so that is very bad for him in this comparison. Moreover, MJ came through when it mattered most, in crucial NBA History moments. No one can top that.