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So, you don't like training because you can't be competitive while you train, and you don't like training because you can't be competitive if you don't train?

Your post is like saying you don't like cake because it is chocolate, and you don't like chocolate because it isn't cake. You made a lot of sense.

Look, I understand that some guys like"training" and therefore like BB. More power to you if that number includes you. I am glad to see that more and more the comments in the forums acknowledge what we all know, that BB has morphed into a strange training exercise rather than a basketball management sim, and I suspect that that morph and the dwindling numbers of users are related. Good luck to you all the same.

So, you don't like training because you can't be competitive while you train, and you don't like training because you can't be competitive if you don't train?

Your post is like saying you don't like cake because it is chocolate, and you don't like chocolate because it isn't cake. You made a lot of sense.

Look, I understand that some guys like"training" and therefore like BB. More power to you if that number includes you. I am glad to see that more and more the comments in the forums acknowledge what we all know, that BB has morphed into a strange training exercise rather than a basketball management sim, and I suspect that that morph and the dwindling numbers of users are related. Good luck to you all the same.

How has it morphed? Can you not continue to avoid training as much as your heart desires, and advance just as far as your abilities take you? Do you start league matches down 10-0 because you're not training in accordance with some guideline? No. The game hasn't changed, certainly not as fundamentally and dramatically as you continue to bellow.

What has changed is that all of the players trained up while there was 2-3x the number of users as there are now are starting to lose their utility due to age, and thus players of useful ability levels are scarcer and therefore more expensive. Many many times more so, since the the equilibrium has shifted from oversupply and corresponding disincentive to train (especially midlevel players) to now overheated demand. Training is of course the solution to the supply issue, but it has the problem of being slow.

But when it comes down to it, I think you'd find, if you think about it honestly, that pretty much everything game mechanic wise is still the same as the day you signed up, with small exceptions like the new out of position training options, maybe some salary formula changes, GDP if you were here before that. The one thing that remains true, throughout, is that there is always someone to claim that whatever they don't like is related to the dwindling user base, and that there are always people to claim that *something* inherent in the system that they don't agree with causes people to not be able to compete and progress in the game, never noticing that plenty of other people seem to progress just fine.

How has it morphed?

Whoa! You're kidding, right? How about the most recent change, that at the start of Season 31 a major change took place in the FA system? How about that the original description of the change was so vague that most people thought there would finally be some relief, a better supply of free agents and a corresponding improvement in the economy as relates to FA's, the transfer market and the entire basketball mechanism? How about that exactly the opposite happened, and we found out the hard way why the original description was so obscure and misleading? How about that when Marin was asked about it, he said it was deliberately done specifically to reward training by making training more profitable?

When the game is deliberately changed by the powers that be to reward training at the cost of damaging the basketball mechanisms and wildly inflating the player economy, I'd call that "morphed," and I don't actually think anyone has forgotten that yet, present company included.

Last edited by Mike Franks at 10/13/2015 5:42:21 PM

Hopefully they just take those % penalties off of the extra positions they added a few seasons back. Let us train any player any position any skill.

i agree they should remove the penalties.
or at least they could tweak them to 95/90/85/80 or even 98/96/93/90 instead of the current 90/80/70/60.

How has it morphed?

Whoa! You're kidding, right? How about the most recent change, that at the start of Season 31 a major change took place in the FA system? How about that the original description of the change was so vague that most people thought there would finally be some relief, a better supply of free agents and a corresponding improvement in the economy as relates to FA's, the transfer market and the entire basketball mechanism? How about that exactly the opposite happened, and we found out the hard way why the original description was so obscure and misleading? How about that when Marin was asked about it, he said it was deliberately done specifically to reward training by making training more profitable?

When the game is deliberately changed by the powers that be to reward training at the cost of damaging the basketball mechanisms and wildly inflating the player economy, I'd call that "morphed," and I don't actually think anyone has forgotten that yet, present company included.

So if the free agency changes were immediately (hell, even retroactively) removed, would this change it from a "strange training exercise" to a "basketball management sim"? I call bull.

Before the changes, you could train players, or not. You could buy players, or not. There were some players who went into free agency, and some who didn't. You could invest in the draft or not. You could use GDP or not. You could use the same tactic over and over or not. You could build your arena or not.

Now, the only change is different players reach free agency. Period. The game has not morphed into something entirely different. And it's the smallest component of all of them - free agency is dwarfed by regular transfers, and training and the draft are available to everyone as well.

Perhaps you want a New York Knicks themed basketball sim, where every team is built exclusively through free agency, and if I come across one, I'll let you know.

Now, the only change is different players reach free agency. Period.

This is a huge change as is fudged up the whole game. There will be close to zero vertical mobility between the leagues as now it is almost impossible to buy the players needed to remain in a higher division and if you want to train those guys it takes ages. If I would like to add the players that give me a chance to remain in DIVI, I would need to spend between 10-15 million for a relegation bound roster. The way it is now, the established teams are now untouchable.

Maybe it will fix itself in the next 2-3 years as managers will adapt and more long-tenured users will quit, but this timespan is a bit long for a game that saw a sharp decline in users in the recent past.

Now, the only change is different players reach free agency. Period.

This is a huge change as is fudged up the whole game. There will be close to zero vertical mobility between the leagues as now it is almost impossible to buy the players needed to remain in a higher division and if you want to train those guys it takes ages. If I would like to add the players that give me a chance to remain in DIVI, I would need to spend between 10-15 million for a relegation bound roster. The way it is now, the established teams are now untouchable.

Maybe it will fix itself in the next 2-3 years as managers will adapt and more long-tenured users will quit, but this timespan is a bit long for a game that saw a sharp decline in users in the recent past.

Free agency wasn't creating those players out of thin air; those players needed to exist and then a team having those players had to become a bot (via quitting or being banned, since all players are still listed at $0 in the case of bankruptcy) or else the player needed to be fired.

I'm more than willing to say that the glacial pace of training is a cause of prices being as they are, and that's definitely something I could see value in changing. But I don't think that there would be a significant shift even if free agency changed to put every single player on teams being botified on the market. Maybe someone has numbers on the number of teams that go bot and the approximate value of the players not put into FA from week to week, which would be interesting to know. But if 20000+ users can't supply enough players right now to satiate market demand, it's awful optimistic to expect that the scraps of the departed teams will make a shift.

So if the free agency changes were immediately (hell, even retroactively) removed, would this change it from a "strange training exercise" to a "basketball management sim"? I call bull.

Of course that's not the ONLY thing needed. You know that and I know that -- we all know that, so I call bull. It's just the most recent of a long line of damaging changes.

Hrudey, you don't have to believe me, but you do have to believe the declining numbers of players. There's no hiding your head in the sand over that.