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They could have done a slow down in primary skills development after an specific level is reached, but this is a mistake...
10% is a big deal. And they did not specified if this applies for all kind of training, even for team training.

Why would someone use two/three position training if you are going to have 1 or 2 pops less per season? Why are the BB mocking of their users with a ridiculous story about trainers going to "Hogwarts" school of magic that trains random skills and reduce the effects of current training?

We are going backwards.

But you said yourself that you're picking players who have the best "salary/performance" ratio. That means that your random pop in rebounding on a guard will cause less of a salary increase than someone else who has a guard with a worse ratio, since that pop will increase the salary a greater amount.

I forgot who it was in another forum (one of the GMs, I believe) so I can't credit them for this insight, but it's a good perspective: each week you're getting 10% of a normal training in one of the 9 skills that aren't being trained. On average, something that takes two full training weeks to pop would, therefore, be expected to take 180 training weeks to pop. Obviously, sublevels and training speed will factor in, but to speak as if training has been destroyed by this is making a mountain out of a pebble.

You are still not proving that this new system is better.My players need more time to develop the skills that they needed and that I want to train for them,and in the same times they are going to receive some bad training for their salary that doesn not improve their skills in game
This is not good,period

I'm not trying to prove it's better; time will tell on that, though I like the change. My argument is that the whole hand-wringing about how this change is enough that you'd say it's "ruining this work" that you put in to find your optimal players. In the grand scheme of things, this change is small -- whether it's a good change or a bad change, if it's enough to ruin your plan for this game, then your plan is way too brittle and short-sighted to be worth preserving. You keep saying things like your players need more time to develop and that they'lll get unwanted training -- guess what, so will mine! So will your league opponents! And if you're a better manager than they are, you'll mitigate the effects of the change better, so I would imagine that this could be looked at as an opportunity to extend that advantage, rather than obsessing over the small effect it will have on you in isolation.

Go to sleep, wake up, and 150 posts. Wow.
I haven't read the whole thread but wanted to reply to a lot of people who said things like when I train OD I never want REB to improve ever. When you train OD in real life, unless you have the worst coach in the world, you train until the end of the play, which ends with a defensive rebound. If you do not block out at the end of your defensive play, you are not playing defense until the end of the play. Cross-training is far more realistic than not. Basketball is a fluid game, or should be when played correctly.

When you train jump shooting, you are also working on handling and driving. How? well, most JS training involves a gu making a jab step and cut to a spot on the floor( the building blocks of driving) catching a pass form another player (handling and passing) then shooting the ball.

The other thing is that people knew this change was coming and now are upset about it. I don't know how many times it has been said, but making long term plans in this game is risky because things change, as the game is just out of its diapers and starting to toddle.

I train mulit-skilled players anyway, so I'm loving the change. Oh, and SF training just got easier.

The hell are you talking about? Are you a coach? That's not how it works at all. Some guys practice defense using weaves, some by practicing team defense(help, rotations).

Real life isn't 2K, where the guys just take you 1 on 1 and you have to contest the shot.

And no, making a jab step and a cut isn't going to improve your ball handling. It's going to improve your jab step and cut.
If that.....seeing as you aren't being guarded by anyone.


Yes. That's always a great thing to have in a MANAGER game. Lack of long term foresight.

SF training did not get easier. All primary training is slowed, it's just to what extent it's slowed by....and I'm not really sure who the hell wants copious amounts of shotblocking and particularly rebounding which is very expensive on SFs on their trainees.

Last edited by Amarestars at 7/27/2011 11:44:45 PM

This is the BBs fault in the first place for making IS so inconsequential in terms of how a SG will actually perform. Same as driving for that matter.

If you want the game to play a certain way, fixed your broken game engine, don't force the players into building stock players.


Triple threat is a pretty underused weapon in real basketball anyway, most offensive possessions are scored off of spot ups, basket cuts and pick and roll. Only really elite guys use triple threat when isolating if you are talking about large sample sizes.

Yes, I am a coach. And if I were your coach, I would suggest you practice your reading skills, because I clearly stated that beginning a jump shot exercise with a jab step and cut improves driving, not handling. Catching a pass improves handling.

And when you practice outside defense there are many drills and ways to do it. A lot of them involve a two on two or three on three game where one group runs a piece of their offense and the other team denies, defends and rebounds. If by weave you mean three man weave, I would say that doesn't really train defense. If by weave you mean guarding a ballhandler as he zig-zags up the court, then I agree, that doesn't usually train rebounding, unless the play ends with the dribbler going to the basket and the rebounder being the ball-handler going the other way (which is the best way to do this drill, by the way). It does, of course, train ball handling. However, if you mean the 11-man drill when you say weave, then that definitely encompasses rebounding, shooting, outside defending, ball handling, passing, stamina, etc.

I don't know what 2k is.

Whether or not it's a good thing wasn't the issue. The fact that the game has seen significant changes every two or three seasons since season 1 (16 full seasons) points to the fact that making long term plans is risky. Sure you can do it, but it is risky.

These changes will not bring copious amounts of any cross-trained skill. Having a bump in a big man skill while training Guard skills or the other way around will be welcomed by me.

Last edited by somdetsfinest at 7/28/2011 12:22:21 AM

If you don't think catching a ball is the basis of ball handling, I don't know what to tell you. And most US 7th grade girls' softball teams could beat the team I coach. What difference does that make? I'm not from here. I didn't learn how to play nor coach here.

If you don't think Chris Paul put in his hours of practicing fundamentals, you would be wrong. I guarantee you.

And,maybe as the most important thing,slows the training of the players in the main skills,giving a big advantage in short-mid term to the teams that actually have better players,because who wants to create a player with the same primary skills will need more time to reach them

And where is the difference between now and then? So if I got 8 pops from full season OD training before, now I will get 7. It's the same for all players, so there willl still be the same gap between better and worse players who receive the same training.

Few players receive training when they are 25-26-27years or older because of a lot of reasons(too high salaries for the league,potential cap,change of training of the owner,etc...),so the change for them is minimal
But all the young players that are trained will suffer from this reduction in the training of the primary skills.1 pop for season for 7-8 seasons means 7-8 primary skills less for a player that have to be trained for a lot of weeks when he'll be26-27 years to reach the level of the actual player who is not trained to reach the same skills
I would call this a BIG advantage...

this would mean that secondary training is never selected for other A Skills, but if you train a guard in OD and he gets training in JS or JR, and loss less through the elastic effect you could also argue as an advantage.

Also i think that especially in club level the dudes with secondaries are better, on NT level it might be a small disadvantage.

Please can we refrain from the personal attacks... bahahahahahahahahahaha

Will the new changes kick in this Friday?

There are many veteran managers on this thread that have passed good comments... interesting to see that not all reside in the top divisions as before (out of choice) and it will be fun to see how they climb back up the ranks (out of choice!)...

I think my duck down and up was successful and may even put it to the test again.... happy with the way I planned for the changes (by not planning)

I'm happy with my initial analysis about us all now building very similar players/rosters and believe the transfer list will be used less frequently again from here on in...... question now is will the majority of teams still train a Look Inside based roster?

10% really isn't a lot is it..... will we really see massive changes?? Is this really a change at all or just 1 to buy another season of development on Game Engine changes?