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You have no clue how this tax will look like and yet you are handling this situation as if you were burning alive..

I think it's funny that you chastise owners for their reaction when they know not how this tax will look but then:

I expect this tax to hit teams above 20-30 million and only the money above this line being taxed,

How is it you have a clue what this will look like

your assessment may be the right one but your speculation is as good as theirs
Just saying

Last edited by Headless T Gunner at 11/18/2015 4:23:54 AM

Good reply!

We are not the problem in the market. We are sleepy teams. I don't have time in real life to study the game, but I like the people here and the game- as the best basketball game in the net.

I thought this is the case for a lot of teams with 20+ million bank accounts. Thanks for contributing.

Once again: should I be punished for managing my finances well? What is the difference between me paying the salaries needed to win and Div I team doing the same if we both earn say 150k weekly?

No you should be making less money for making the game less enjoyable for others and intentionally putting your team in a position to only lose. When you don't then you should have attendance like everyone else. This has more to do with realism than daytrading ever did and quite possibly as much as the training inconsistencies.

I'm sorry but -1700 PD and 0-22 record? You can't honestly call that "managing my finances well"...surely no more than saying "daytrading is managing your finances well". In fact at least daytrading is "managing" something while tanking isn't

Last edited by Lemonshine at 11/18/2015 6:11:23 AM

You have no clue how this tax will look like and yet you are handling this situation as if you were burning alive..

I think it's funny that you chastise owners for their reaction when they know not how this tax will look but then:

I expect this tax to hit teams above 20-30 million and only the money above this line being taxed,

How is it you have a clue what this will look like

your assessment may be the right one but your speculation is as good as theirs
Just saying

Just an educated guess from various statements. I don't know if Marin or Perpete mentioned it, but it was said, that there was a certain treshold and the money above that would be taxed. Plus only a handful of teams will qualify for that. The richest teams I know have about 20 million, so...

Lucky that none of the persons complaining now, works in Formula 1 or some other competitive/regulated environment - where every season teams have to deal with new rules and regulations...

tanking can also be a strategy for long term continued success at the top level.

Sure, but it shouldn't....tanking does not usually work in the NBA (at the very least you need other managerial skills to pull it off) and NEVER works in any other league in the world.
Nowhere in the world can you make about the same amount of money from fans with a 0-22 record and a 12-12 record. Look here:http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance/_/year/2015/sort/allPct and then ask yourself if that seems to bear any correlation with on-court performance.

At that point I could have stayed on the same path, remaining reasonably competitive, but probably not winning anything for the foreseeable future. I choose to tank however, because I thought it a better long term decision that would allow me to come back stronger and be a future perennial title contender in Div 1.

Yeah well, there are other ways than taking the easy way: this guy http://www.buzzerbeater.com/team/162788/history.aspx took 10 seasons to get to D1 (from D5, although probably that was a bot league), another 5 seasons to get into the B3 and he has never relegated nor missed the KO phases of the B3 (in all but one appeareance getting to the quarterfinals or better). Has this other guy ever took the easy way? http://www.buzzerbeater.com/team/37519/history.aspx. Some of the best managers have built perennial contenders without tanking, those who needed tanking or bought titles are just not as good as those managers in my opinion. It's just as simple as that.
I started in s24 from D3, never missed the playoffs and I made the finals in D1 last season. I'm in a year where I will have to acquire a younger roster and, possibly, trainees and I'm many seasons away (probably) from securing a place at the top, however I'm not interested in winning by taking the easy way or any shortcut, especially because I would be no better than those I'm criticising.

So let's say it out loud: with trading mostly killed, tanking is the easiest way to get to the top and stay there. The problem is that it's completely unrealistic, it's counterintuitive and, more importantly, anyone can do it, it doesn't involve any skill or balancing exercise. I don't care if others have done it in the past, people made millions from daytrading too, but we still killed it, because it was good for the game. Preventing people from hoarding millions each season while not being competitive is also good for the game.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 11/18/2015 6:26:48 AM

@Lemonshine: I like the suggestions and we'll consider them next time we discuss solutions for tanking. As you also admit, your solutions aren't perfect. That's why it's so hard to take any route: each one has holes and needs exceptions, etc...

@Mike Franks: It would probably be less stressful for you if you accept the way training works in BB and not try to push change in a fundamental part of the game. It's not going to happen. Also, try not to post 4 posts in a row, rather use the @ sign to reference other managers.

@Everyone: Seems like the only thing we can all agree upon is that the fans response to tanking is inappropriate. Actually, seems like fans don't punish extremely bad results (like 0-22) with enough disdain, which makes tanking a financially viable option. So, it would make sense to change that fan response. It would't affect teams in bot leagues, and that's fine, there seems to be no solution that addresses that atm. We just need to figure out how to implement it

The discussion here has been helpful and I think you should all be commended for that. I understand that things can get heated and that sometimes we veer off topic but all in a all, I think it was constructive.

Thank you.

@Everyone: Seems like the only thing we can all agree upon is that the fans response to tanking is inappropriate. Actually, seems like fans don't punish extremely bad results (like 0-22) with enough disdain, which makes tanking a financially viable option. So, it would make sense to change that fan response.

Just keep an eye on new teams, that inherit the old teams record - some start at the end of a season, with really bad records. It would be horrible to punish new managers.

Yup, will do.

which generally all involve you wanting to eliminate all choice and consequence with no corresponding increase in complexity

Wow, you sure get upset when you get caught putting words in my mouth that I never said or would say (such as "I know you'd prefer the easy button mode where all you do is set one lineup and they play for you in perpetuity.") It is painfully obvious you don't have a clue what I advocate. To refresh your memory, I have consistently advocated for athletic competition rather than who-can-amass-millions-of-dollars, logical training rather than illogical Hattrick derivatives, and opportunity for lower- and mid-level teams that is sorely lacking currently.
That should sound familiar to you, because a lot of people advocate the same things I do. I sure wish you would quit your personal attacks on me. Isn't a GM supposed to set an example? A lot of us were discussing buzzerbeater and the proposed luxury tax, so please let us get back to our discussion. Thank you.

So, to sum it up, no concrete ideas (again), an attack on me (again) while simultaneously complaining that my post is an attack on you (again), and more wasted time on pointless discussion (again).

Wake me up if there's ever a time it goes from "Mike wants" (or "Mike complains about") to "Mike proposes" and I'll be happy to discuss that. Otherwise, I apologize to everyone for wasting their time responding to the latest version of your wishlist when all you have to contribute is what you want, not how you'd like to get there (again).