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Elements to a successful 2-3 zone

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From: GM-hrudey

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220677.17 in reply to 220677.16
Date: 6/26/2012 2:41:52 PM
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there are six primary skills for guards

I dont know why so many people cant see at least HA and PA as a skill that even big men should have. Now i dont look at basketball or anything like that and im only here because i really like the game. But i dont thnk there are many post players in the NBA that cant pass or somewhat dribble with the ball.
It seems like so much from real life has gone lost when training players here in BB.


There's no time for that when you've got to hurry up to rush out that next overpaid three-skill donkey that goes for peanuts on the TL! ;)

From: Big Dogs

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220677.18 in reply to 220677.16
Date: 6/26/2012 2:41:52 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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But i dont think there are many post players in the NBA that cant pass or somewhat dribble with the ball.


This is true, but here are some that can:
Kevin Love
Chris Bosh
Kevin Garnett
Dirk Nowitzki
Amare Stoudemire

I know there are some more, but these are the ones I can come up with.

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220677.19 in reply to 220677.13
Date: 6/26/2012 2:45:47 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
you're right that most people don't have the personnel... but it's strange that a defense requires a specific roster type. For example, does any team not have the personnel to run 3-2 zone???


i believe many player have the personal, but don't use it right. I would really sub in your third big, and try it like that then.

And especially in the US leagues i have the feeling that you are really rate OD very high, so i thing this have also an impact on an SF who are more build for outside defence already.

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220677.20 in reply to 220677.19
Date: 6/26/2012 5:16:08 PM
Socks & Balls
II.1
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Second Team:
Really Small Socks
I think another reason for people to dislike 2-3 zone is the guards on the opposing side. Usually teams that prefer LI (should) use guards with moderately high IS and very high DR. This leads to more mid range opportunities being taken against the weakened outside defense. Having players with above average OD should help in this too, but against teams with guards with lower shooting the regular high ID inside players should suffice in the zone.

Last edited by Iso_Massimo at 6/26/2012 5:17:18 PM

This Post:
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220677.21 in reply to 220677.16
Date: 6/26/2012 5:16:37 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
126126
there are six primary skills for guards

I dont know why so many people cant see at least HA and PA as a skill that even big men should have. Now i dont look at basketball or anything like that and im only here because i really like the game. But i dont thnk there are many post players in the NBA that cant pass or somewhat dribble with the ball.
It seems like so much from real life has gone lost when training players here in BB.


Tomofey Mozgov
Greg Oden
John Edwards (former Hawk and Pacer, allegedly is a person who plays here)
McColluagh

there have been several throughout NBA history.

Just because JaVale McGee botches plays like this and ends up on youtube, doesn't mean all centers are capable of it.

Whom was the last Center to average more than 5+ assists?

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220677.22 in reply to 220677.16
Date: 6/26/2012 8:38:32 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
766766
Dwight Howard averaged over 3 turnovers a game last season and less than 2 assists per game. just thought id mention that.

There are some players in the past, where, they basically just didnt want to give them the ball at all in offense. Tends to not happen now in the NBA, but back in the day you had big uncoordianted C's who were just there to rebound, block and do nothing on offense. set a screen or two.

guys like Mark eaton, or Will Perdue, or Manute Bol, or Greg Ostertag! You just dont get gumbies like that in the NBA anymore.

From: shikago

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22
220677.23 in reply to 220677.5
Date: 6/26/2012 10:47:33 PM
Milwaukee Lethargy
II.3
Overall Posts Rated:
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Miłwaukee Lethargy
your original advice for 2-3 sounds good, but in summary all you really said is:

guards: be great defensively. high OD & some SB
forwards: be great defensively. good ID + good OD & SB
center: high ID & SB

so in essence: be great at defense. better than you already are. but if you become great at defense, why would you need to play 2-3 zone on a regular basis? And any tactic will be successful if you have great players...

a zone is mainly used when you're not good enough to defend man to man. Trying to take away one thing at the expense of something else. if you can already shut everything down M2M, it would be idiotic to create an unnecessary hole defensively, wouldn't it?

From: Isaiah

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220677.24 in reply to 220677.23
Date: 6/26/2012 11:08:24 PM
Smallfries
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
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Second Team:
Smallfries II
Well, you are very right. However the point is to stop a LI. And not only stop it, but shut it down. So really a great players playing M2M will always play good defense, but playing them in the 2-3 will shut the currently unstoppable LI down.

But Im going to add that its not just having a good defense that will do it. Any team can have a good defense, but its the SB(especially at the C position) that makes the 2-3 successful. As I mentioned before, the C position will defend the majority of the driving layups and dunks in a 2-3 defense, which there are tons, so you have to have the SB to make it most successful.

Some mentioned that you dont need the SB to run a successful 2-3, however I think it depends on if you are facing a team with low driving and high IS, or high driving but lower IS. Which the high driving lower IS will need the SB while the low driving and high IS will just need the good ID.

From: shikago

This Post:
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220677.26 in reply to 220677.24
Date: 6/26/2012 11:57:02 PM
Milwaukee Lethargy
II.3
Overall Posts Rated:
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Second Team:
Miłwaukee Lethargy
I was going to say something along the lines of Terfu. Also in the same vein, I was also going to reply to this before he posted. (my post lagged out i guess)

Any team can have a good defense, but its the SB(especially at the C position) that makes the 2-3 successful. As I mentioned before, the C position will defend the majority of the driving layups and dunks in a 2-3 defense, which there are tons, so you have to have the SB to make it most successful.

you are saying that the 2-3 is even worse than M2M versus a LI, and that is the exact reason SB is important.

i think 2-3 zone is so bad in part because it lowers OD so much. i've faced a number of teams with really high shot blocking & 2-3 zone... they were terrible though. 100 times worse than the teams without high SB. sure, there's other factors, but still... as much as you're touting SB they should have been much better? (unless, of course, those other factors are really the key & SB only plays a minor role)

Which the high driving lower IS will need the SB while the low driving and high IS will just need the good ID.

When I faced a lot of those high SB teams, I had ridiculously low IS. Of course I'm aware that in and of itself proves nothing.

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