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Yeah high passing is great but I went a little too crazy, I was thinking what was possible for the salary and not so much wether it would be managable to achieve. Maybe just regular stats and only switching OD/ID would be more plausible.

The bigs in this setup don't have lower SB than guards would have so that wouldn't make them worse perimeter defenders I think. They do miss the HA, but I guess overall they'll do pretty similar right? In any case, thanks for your input.

At some point their designated position would change, and salary as well due to that fact I believe. So it would seem that you can't have it both ways - both low salary and high ID for instance. But it depends on how high are we talking about here.

Yes.
This was going to be something I brought up, then it becomes simply wasted training... having trained a shorter guy for bigs training or a taller guy for guards (given that they won't train as fast). Better off to train a guy with those starting stats/height as an all-rounder/SF type.

If they don't switch, then it might be an interesting experiment and kudos to you for thinking outside the box... however, if it goes wrong: then it becomes pretty damn expensive! G'luck...

Last edited by malice at 2/1/2013 7:36:48 PM

I've seen this idea mentioned a few other times. I think it is great but it is very hard to implement for reasons others have pointed out, the big one being you would need someone else to train the opposite type player. Also the players would need to play 48 minutes or you would need backups with the same type of builds, which would be very hard to find.

You should do it IMO.

Also the elastic effect must be considered when you have od and is so low its going to KILL you when training .

Meh not really, the elastic affect for OD is small compared to a skill like HA, and even with HA it's not a huge deal.

The training for this would be more difficult but not as much as people are saying. The real difficulty is filling your roster with the players you need outside of the ones you train.

Thank you for your reply, I agree with your main point of difficulty. That's why I'd like to know wether it's allowed to cooperate with other managers to train players and exchange them later, without the aim being profit or transferring cash?

At some point their designated position would change, and salary as well due to that fact I believe. So it would seem that you can't have it both ways - both low salary and high ID for instance. But it depends on how high are we talking about here.

If they don't switch, then it might be an interesting experiment and kudos to you for thinking outside the box... however, if it goes wrong: then it becomes pretty damn expensive! G'luck...

Well I have no experience with the training, the only things I can go by are the s17 Salary Calculator, the one in Buzzer Manager and the salary estimation in the Training Simulator. I used those to find out the point where it changes, but for Bigs you can add as much OD as you want if you keep the other guard skills at a reasonable level. It's a bit harder for guards as you'll want not just ID but also RB and IS at a decent level, but I think with some careful planning it's pretty safe.

Your idea sounds very nice and I like it. Actually I think I'm applying it, but not at the scale you are describing it. I use it only on my bigs : i'm trying to develop big guys with inside def skills, and outside attack skills. But the rest of the roster is rather based on a "classic" scheme.
This strategy of "Hybrid players" leading to an optimal roster costs is realistic, but becomes harder to implement on the entire roster of a team.
10-12 average height players with inverted attack/defense skills will take time and energy to develop.

Still you can start with focusing on those who will be your 3 inside guys and developping them for X seasons (i took 3 guys for the 1 position training which is the most efficient). The rest of the roster should be kept "classic" so your team stays competitive. Once their training gets slower (around 23 to 25 y.o.), then go for the guards. Develop 3 PG/SG, (1+2 pr 2+1)... all this would last for approx. 12 seasons ! During this time, you should have made enough money to buy 2/3 all around SFs to complete the roster (we have 9 players out of 12). The last 3 ones will come at last, from your market or from the next drafts ...
"Working" with other teams and exchanging players is a bit hard to control : a player on the TL will be available for all the managers. How can you be sure the traded player will go at the price you and your "partners" will decide ? And even working with partner teams, it will last more than 12 years to get your ideal roster anyway...

The result of it will become a roster of "cheap" players with great skills ... is the salary difference worth a 10 season work ? how long will it take before it becomes more efficient financially than a more "classic" approach ? (I ask those questions and will try to figure it out, because as I said before, i'm quite interested in this kind of approaches !)

Thanks for your reply. I'm just putting the idea forward hoping others agree, and maybe help trying. Maybe more and more managers will see the benefit and we can bring forth a shift in strategy. As more managers train these type of players, completing your roster will become easier. It sounds a little like a utopia, but I like out of the box ideas.

I think the bigs are easier/faster to train, because you only need high levels of IS and OD, and then some RB and a little of the other skills. If you can get them to finish training at age 23, you'll be approaching an ideal starting 5 pretty quickly.

About trading the players with partners, what if both put a player on the wire, and bid on eachother's players? As you bid, the other guy gets more cash available allowing him to bid more on yours, so you can do the same. Basically you can big 5 million on eachother's player. I don't think that high a price is desirable for the transfer market and possibly forbidden, but seeing as the players won't fit very well in regular teams, I don't think other managers will want to spend a lot on these players. If you bid at the high part of the market value, I don't think regular managers are gonna outbid you.

And wether it's worth it? I don't know, that depends on what you want. For me, I think it would be worth it to be succesful with my own strategy that no-one else uses. Also, to be the best you gotta have a real good advantage (or real good luck), and having a roster that only costs you 1/3rd to 1/2 of the salary of competitors, I'd say you'd have that kind of advantage. If you want to win it all, you need to put in a lot of work, so if you aim high I think it's worth a shot!

Thank you, I think if more managers see the benefit of this setup, it will be easier to put together a team like this. And you need to view things in perspective; for the level of skills I portrayed here, you'll need a PAS/Superstar trainee yes, but if you compare it to a traditional player with the same skill level you'll need a lower potential because your player will have 1/3rd to half of the salary of the traditional player. If that's a problem you can start with a lower level of skill as your goal.

Actually I think finding trainees will be easier than finding them for a traditional build, because you'll be training big and small skills, so overall the training speed will be about the same wether it's a 6'3", 6'6" or 6'9" player. Also having holes in the skills of the player will not matter that much; a big with ID below 5 won't be a problem for this type of player, and since it's not ideal for the traditional player build, the trainee might even be cheaper.

Reading the topic about B3, I see that any effort towards trying to win on the high levels is a big one. And since money is such a bottleneck on the high level, can't this idea be a solution for them?