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Meaning of the Outside/Inside in the ISOs?

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268396.16 in reply to 268396.15
Date: 4/6/2015 8:45:00 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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i associate both isolation offenses with the professional game of the late '70s, early '80s. ball would be given to one player, and his four teammates -- and their defenders would all gather on the other side of the free throw lane and watch this one player work his moves on his defender.

god, was that boring.

i would love to be able to create a team that truly mimicked today's game at its best, a driving PG with an option to get it to a big man or kick it out to a three point shooter in the corner. passing, motion, shooting skills on almost all players. everybody involved. the direct opposite of the isolation offenses.

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268396.17 in reply to 268396.16
Date: 4/6/2015 9:34:39 PM
Kinky Koalas
II.4
Overall Posts Rated:
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Second Team:
Down Under Drop Bears
i would love to be able to create a team that truly mimicked today's game at its best, a driving PG with an option to get it to a big man or kick it out to a three point shooter in the corner. passing, motion, shooting skills on almost all players. everybody involved. the direct opposite of the isolation offenses.


Motion? Make sure all players have high passing and JS/JR?

From: Mr. Glass

To: Phyr
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268396.18 in reply to 268396.12
Date: 4/7/2015 12:35:35 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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If you read my post on it, or if my last post was to hard to understand again. I said its the base point of those offenses, but other shots will happen as well.

its based on the sum of the skill you have for them, vs the defensive skill the team is seeing . Iso/inside Iso can be mid range all game long it doesn't have to be a 3pts or a lay in basket.. The comfort area is mid range. The base area is the tactic principal. Based on in game skills of the players , the principals will happen more than midrange. but that does not exclude other shots being taken in between .

I hope that's more clearer on my behalf.

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268396.19 in reply to 268396.15
Date: 4/7/2015 12:45:09 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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Outside whoever has the highest JS/JR. Inside whoever has the highest IS

This is contrary to what ive experienced.

If we used the above player stats that ive posted - according to your theory, my PG would be more dominant in the OI

But n actual fact, he is not at all. Secondly, with IO, that would suggest my PF is dominant - he is, but my SG is more dominant.

there might be some other factors here that we are not taking into account. But its certainly not 'clear cut' based on JS/JR or IS skills. my experience has shown a more balanced set of scoring options across the team - very much like base offense. but maybe my team is very balanced offensively?


This Post:
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268396.20 in reply to 268396.19
Date: 4/7/2015 1:32:27 AM
Kinky Koalas
II.4
Overall Posts Rated:
110110
Second Team:
Down Under Drop Bears
It would probably have a large influence from your opponent's skill points too.

Very difficult to determine........

This Post:
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268396.21 in reply to 268396.20
Date: 4/7/2015 3:50:28 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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im assuming this is the case as well.

But in general, in Div II, most oppositions are fairly generic. Play M2M, have good OD on their guards, low investment on SB,

Its generally just the skill set that varies. And generally, if there is going to be a weak link, it will be at SF.

So its *kinda* like a standard opposition pool of data. Sorta. :)


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268396.22 in reply to 268396.17
Date: 4/7/2015 6:03:36 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
485485
i've never run across any team that routinely took 25 - 35 three pointers in a game, much less hit 45% while doing so.

my understanding JR is that it trains only as a function of JS.

i have a player with a 15 DR, 16 JS, 13 JR, and he is content with maybe a half dozen threes in an outside or neutral offense.

using the Cavaliers or Rockets as a model, such an offense would need
-- a PG that could routinely hit threes, tremendous DR, and great PA
-- a number of shooting options among at least the 2-3-4 spots, all favoring threes
-- capable big men
-- team rebounding
-- deep bench
training such a team would be quite a challenge or, for that matter, assembling these kinds of players from the TL.

motion is good, but it does not do all this.

This Post:
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268396.23 in reply to 268396.15
Date: 4/7/2015 7:04:10 AM
Woodbridge Wreckers
DBA Pro A
Overall Posts Rated:
13911391
all outside vs inside does is pick who the player being isolated is. Outside whoever has the highest JS/JR. Inside whoever has the highest IS. Other than that shot selection and everything is the same IMHO.


Is it already clear which player the GE selects in each ISO offense and on what paramaters? For outside ISO, things go as expected with my guards taking a lot of shots and having high assists (so I assume they create the offense), and they are succesful in general I believe because good IS. But in Inside ISO, my PF doesn't take a whole lot of shots while he has 18 IS/13 DR/9 PA. Here's an example of a game against a bad team, so I'd think he would destroy them (he plays C here): (79200998).

He took 10 shots, 4 FT's and had 7 assists, so he was not insignificant but with such a mismatch I expected greater results. It could be that he tried to pass a lot since he has decent passing for a big, but still with 18 IS vs inferior defense taking his own shot should have been the best option a lot more often than 10 times.

This Post:
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268396.24 in reply to 268396.22
Date: 4/7/2015 10:49:03 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
i've never run across any team that routinely took 25 - 35 three pointers in a game, much less hit 45% while doing so.

my understanding JR is that it trains only as a function of JS.

i have a player with a 15 DR, 16 JS, 13 JR, and he is content with maybe a half dozen threes in an outside or neutral offense.

using the Cavaliers or Rockets as a model, such an offense would need
-- a PG that could routinely hit threes, tremendous DR, and great PA
-- a number of shooting options among at least the 2-3-4 spots, all favoring threes
-- capable big men
-- team rebounding
-- deep bench
training such a team would be quite a challenge or, for that matter, assembling these kinds of players from the TL.

motion is good, but it does not do all this.


I'm with you in that I don't think such an offense really exists currently (which is a shame since it almost looks like my team's makeup). I like Princeton but the problem with that is it's slow and it pretty much negates the advantage of a deep bench, since your opponent's players no longer get as tired and your starters no longer want to go to the bench because Coach McDerpins doesn't care about substitutions. ;)

The bigger problem is that there's a glut of OD in the game and a paucity of JR, relatively speaking. It's not easy to run outside offenses successfully, and the 3-2 has very little downside to it but sure can hamper outside shooting further.

I'm kind of interested in putting together an iso/outside team once I finish flogging my current glue squad, either end of this season or next. I'm leaning toward going with an all-around offensive type SF with absurd driving and good passing, pairing him with guards with driving and IS heavy and bigs with good JS and JR and see if it it works spectacularly or (as I suspect) fails even more spectacularly.

This Post:
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268396.25 in reply to 268396.23
Date: 4/7/2015 2:58:06 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
654654
Keep in mind that just the initial person Isoed doesn't necessarily shoot the ball. The fact that he had so many assists says to me that he was in fact the initial iso but passed the ball. Probably because of the 2-3 zone. I also think you need JS on your big.

Last edited by Phyr at 4/7/2015 3:01:15 PM

This Post:
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268396.26 in reply to 268396.16
Date: 4/7/2015 4:06:35 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
137137
i think push the ball and paitent is the closet thing to that 80's style of play. it cheap to start but also expensive to replace certain positions later on

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