BuzzerBeater Forums

Most changes sound ok or good, except this future one:

- To more in depth tactics and possibly alter the LI domination, you will be able to guess your opponent strategy, giving you a boost.

I think it will turn the game into rock/paper/scissors, the game already has a lot of random factors, and adding more guessing just feel wrong for me.

Moreover it duplicates the defensive tactics, if you think your opponent might use a specific attack or is stronger in a particular area, you can choose a defensive tactic that try to counter the way you think the oponent will attack.

Now you could guess twice once with your defensive tactics and once with the new "guess". This is hard to rationalize.
Certainly Z2-3 is a poor counter to LI, but just fix Z2-3 rather than mess everything.

*******************************************

I would really like more options for selecting tactics. A fully fledged 'Tactics Editor' would be great. Or simpler, as the tactics are more or less weights that affect the game engine (they are propably more complex, but the idea is the same), I would like to have sliders to affects those weights and to try to customize the tactics for my players and for the opposing team.

This would give the feeling of what coach do IRL, rather than a poker guess. Moreover some tactics see little use because they are too specific, for example if I want to play a slow tempo game, Patient should be a natural choice, however Patient turns to be much more specific than just being slow.
More ways to adapt tactics will help correct the defects (or perceived ones) of the existing tactics, and reduce the LI dominance.

I don't understand the comparison between the predictions of the tactics and rock/paper/scissors, simply because you will now just play rock if you are very sure your opponent plays scissors (and in some desperate cover your head and brace the impact situations). I wonder if people missed the announcement that you don't HAVE to make predictions, you have the option to do so.

Guessing right probably does little more than remove the GE boost applied to the tactic.

Even if you don't guess, your opponent could still get a boost from guessing your own tactics. Anyway, this guessing seems wrong to me because if you know the tactics your opponent is going to use, you should adjust your tactics to counter theirs. I guess the problem you are trying to solve was the LI domination. However, maybe since 2-3 zone wasn't that effective against LI you could have given a bonus (like an effort or enthusiasm bonus) to any team that uses 2-3 to guard against LI.

And Wolph, the problem I have with guessing defenses is that I don't want to be playing a 3-2 zone or something simply because I'm scared my opponent guessed I would play M2M. If I were use a different defense, it should be because I believe it will give me a tactical advantage. If I know the defense my opponent is playing, I should adjust my offense to take advantage of it. Also, if they implement this guessing option I do not think you should be able to guess the balanced offensive and defensive options (BO and M2M).

The idea is that this change would apply not only to LI but any tactic that a team just sets on cruise control and never changes again. If the downside of having it wrong is relevant enough you will only use this feature against teams that are really that predictable that they play the same lineup >95% of the time.

I personally see it as an extra challenge to be less predictable in my lineups like I used to be when I was still playing in the II division and could switch between outside and inside based offences to surprise opponents.

Personally I think it only makes sense to predict the offence of the opponent though and not the defense. If I'm a boring team that plays 100% Run and Gun my opponent would be correct to set a 3-2 (or 1-3-1) line-up and I shouldn't get a boost for predicting that based on my own predictability.

It's also nice to just see some bigger changes to try to improve/stimulate the tactical side of the game. What would be nice is a way to also stimulate the "new" tactics that noone ever plays like the Isolation or Box-and-1 tactics. Do we need more info on how to use them? Or are they broken?

I really don't know the BB's real intention behind this new feature but I interpret it as an attempt to persuade managers from doing the LI/M2M cruise control

The reason is pretty easy to see actually. BBs who can make drastic changes to GE don't have time for BB anymore (Charles...) and others who have time can't change the GE (Marin). They are limited in what they can do (increase/decrease cost of a skill, boost a defense etc.), so they are trying to do something within their "powers" BBs bestowed them. So far I think they've been doing great.

Last edited by Koperboy at 9/24/2013 5:51:22 AM

I honestly cant see what people are so afraid of about this new guessing feature.

(Valid) Dislike for something isn't fear. Nor is criticism.

I don't understand the comparison between the predictions of the tactics and rock/paper/scissors, simply because you will now just play rock if you are very sure your opponent plays scissors (and in some desperate cover your head and brace the impact situations). I wonder if people missed the announcement that you don't HAVE to make predictions, you have the option to do so.

I agree this is not pure blind guess like in rock/paper/scissors.
Nevertheless it drives the game it this direction. I man you will deliberately play your least favourite tactics in games that you might loose, to try to mislead you opponents. This element is still present in the game, but too a lesser extent.

It's clear for me that the guessing is not manadatory, but the point is that if you guess correctly, you get an advantage and if you guess was wrong you will have a small penalty. Facing a stronger opponent, why wouldn't I take more risks anyway. For the underdog this is a no brainer. And for the favourite this is an extra matter of concerns. This will have an impacy in sinle elimination game like PO and tournament. So the side effects would be much worse than what this new option is supposed to cure.

I'm really concerned that the guessing with tactics plus the new guessing option would overshadow strategy and planning.
And will lead to a sort of meta guessing game.

The LI dominance is not good, put peoples are just pinpointing the weakness of other offensive tactics and weakness with Z2-3 or Inside box.
For me it's a clear case were the fix is worse than the problem.