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If you have a 13/13/13 guy, this means he is good only on outside. Let's say he has DR 8 and IS 1; he will make 90% of plays from outside. So to me, it's ok if he is "punished" from a good OD guy, because he is one-dimensional player. Ok, maybe one-dimensional player is a bit too much, since he can score and pass, so let's say it's a 2-dimensional player

But if he had something like DR 13 and IS 8, then the player who defends him must have also a good ID. If he has not, then you just put a one-dimensional defender against 3-dimensional attacker, if that makes any sense

So I would say high OD guys are good against either:

a) players who can't do anything else but play outside tactics
b) players who can play also inside tactics, but manager told them to play Motion or R&G

Example: I bought a player with OD 12 (this level is pretty good for our third league) and put it to guard defending SF. My player had pitiful ID and fouled out in the middle of second quarter. SF's manager played Patient, so there wasn't any inside tactics involved. If he was playing Look inside, I'd imagine my guard would foul out in 5 minutes into the game.
Oh, and the match I'm referring to: (30002030)


EDIT: I know normally you can't put a 26k guy with pitiful ID to guard an opposing 30k SF, but before match I was looking at his previous match using play-by-play feature and his SF took mostly jump shots and not many layups, so that's why I decided the way I did. When my 26k guard fouled out, he got replaced by my 21-y old trainee with OD 10, ID 7 and SB 7; he made only 2 fouls till the end of the game and 3 blocks.

Last edited by Koperboy at 3/25/2011 4:27:13 AM

I think we need to look more than 2 players in passing, at least 4.
I'm new to game and do not know how game mehancis it works, but if it trys to be as close as posible to real basketball than every pass has 4 players involved (players who gives pass, players who recives ball and 2 defenders).
So I think that player who recives pass need drvinig (vs defenders OD, ID, driving???) to get rid off his guard and player giving pass need passing to make accurate pass and driving (or maybe handling??) to get to position to pass (against defenders OD???).

If that's true we could all have been undervalueing OD for big men...

Very nice analysis!

Outside shooters miss WAAAy to much in this game, beyond just how low JR is usually trained, I just think OD has too big an impact on outside shots.

I'm not sure about this, maybe it's caused by a faster pace in this game than in reality, so that it's less boring to watch the games and it still produces kind of realistic outcomes and statistics... but i haven't counted average posessions per game, it's just a feeling :-)

I also think OD is too important in this game. It annoys me no end to see my guards shooting 35%. Takes a lot out of the game for me.

Fact is, if they can have shot blocking as a separate skill for big men then they should also have stealing separately for perimeter defenders. There are lots of players who have above average steal numbers but are not necessarily the best defenders. This would even things out a little on the defensive end.

But I think the most important reason things are unbalanced on the defensive end is that players have no trainable physical skills. Physical ability is crucial in defending - strength, jumping, quickness matter a lot when it comes to defence. But making such changes would probably require an overhaul of training, so I don't know if any of this is viable. Would love it if it happened though..

Forrester describes OD's importance in the GE:

I think the new GE made changes that most teams haven't made the appropriate adjustements to. I think the problem really is with handling and passing than with OD. Those ratings used to not have a very large effect, and now we have increased the importance of how the handling/passing of a team balances against the defensive pressure being applied. Teams that put out a very stiff outside defense will pressure the guards, and if the guards don't have the ball handling and passing skills to navigate around this pressure more turnovers will result.

In addition, if OD is too low, its going to give guards and easier time finding passing lanes, resulting in more assists etc. And we turned up the size of this tradeoff. So I think teams have focused more on OD, and have defensive options which modify this rating, but really its changes in both handling/passing and outside defense which have altered team dynamics.

I don't know if everyone feels that its too dominant an effect, but our feeling is that handling/passing rates will rise over time and some of what you are talking about will go down over time.

I find it funny how PA still is the least trained skill, ofc second after SB.

OD used to be that important 2-3 seasons ago but not anymore. OD now can't stop inside offense with low offensive flow. Back then playing inside players in SF is a big no-no. There used to be weekly threads complaining inside tactics with shit offensive flow doesn't make inside shots. It's so obvious BB has tuned down the effect of OD and we are back to inside offense dominating the game.

Last edited by 7ton at 3/25/2011 11:06:08 PM