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From: Lemonshine

To: BAN-wolph

This Post:

268232.17 in reply to 268232.14
Date: 3/18/2015 10:43:20 AM

Overall Posts Rated:

1490

People in my league (with top teams) hate ISOs. Apparently when there is no clear mismatch and you go against very good defenses (for your level of offense) the shot selection is not as 'reasonable' as in other tactics. That is also due to the fact that it's unlikely to hope for a Guard set at PF/C to be the focus of the offense in Inside ISO (which you can in patient and it is therefore easier to create mismatches).

I will try to see how it works compared to patient before the end of the season (I know Patient hasn't worked that well for me lately, hopefully outside ISO will be better, my best scorer has very high passing too, so that might work better for him)

Last edited by Lemonshine at 3/18/2015 10:45:59 AM

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From: Tom Bane

To: Lemonshine

This Post:

268232.18 in reply to 268232.17
Date: 3/18/2015 1:14:22 PM

Overall Posts Rated:

In my last game, I chose Outside Iso and my opponent chose 3-2 Zone. From what I can tell, once my outside player got passed his man and ran into the inside player he dished the ball to either the Center or the PF and they took the fairly open shot. My PF is not a great scorer and started the game 6 for 6. My Center took the first 3 shots of the game and he has no outside shooting at all. From what I saw, every shot came off a pass from an outside shooter.

The biggest downside I see to Patient is that it focuses the offense on one guy and if that one guy is not having a good game against the defense, your team is in for a long night as he just continues to fire away and hope something goes in.

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From: Jeründerbar

To: Tom Bane

This Post:

268232.19 in reply to 268232.18
Date: 3/18/2015 5:13:43 PM

Woodbridge Wreckers

DBA Pro A

Overall Posts Rated:

1383

Yeah ISO can have a much more even shot distribution if you have good passing on the iso player.

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From: Lemonshine

To: Jeründerbar

This Post:

268232.20 in reply to 268232.19
Date: 3/18/2015 5:37:47 PM

Overall Posts Rated:

1490

Wait, is it only one player who is the focus of the offense or can be more than one?

I also have another question for you guys. Let's say my opponent has 54OD at PG-SF spots (19-19-16) and my guards have all 14-16 Passing and 15-17 Driving at best, would you say that's enough to create the offense? Unfortunately there is so much defense in my D2 league (I've seen Wondrous OD ratings with 1-3-1...) that every time one of the other top teams tries II or OI they are unhappy with the shot distribution

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From: Jeründerbar

To: Lemonshine

This Post:

268232.21 in reply to 268232.20
Date: 3/18/2015 6:14:16 PM

Woodbridge Wreckers

DBA Pro A

Overall Posts Rated:

1383

I havent done much in depth play by play analysis so I can't say how many players are focussed on in what situations. When I have more time I hope to do that.

Against that high defense I think most offenses have trouble. Without knowing the rest of the skills/players/opponent it's hard to say how Iso performs compared to other offenses.

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From: Lemonshine

To: Jeründerbar

This Post:

268232.22 in reply to 268232.21
Date: 3/18/2015 6:35:08 PM

Overall Posts Rated:

1490

Against that high defense I think most offenses have trouble.

That's true but flow is a team's rating not individual only, so provided that you have decent passing spread out among your players, you might have a decent and 'reasonable' shot distribution in LI/PTB/Princeton pretty much any 'focused' tactic. In ISOs, if I'm understanding correctly, if the go-to guy can't overpower his defender you're toast, much like in Patient, except in Patient the designated scorer will just try to score and in ISOs he can also create for others (so he has more options).

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From: DoG

This Post:

268232.23 in reply to 268232.22
Date: 3/19/2015 7:04:35 AM

Overall Posts Rated:

tried Outside Iso last game with a SG at PF slot - inconclusive as far as i can tell

My players took mostly inside shots or drives to the hoop based on the PBP but in fairness my PG has high driving and his C looked overmatched (170k sallary vs 40k). Shot distribution appeared even at all positions. Flipside I have decent to good passing / driving at all positions.

Also had way too many fouls than normal.

I played 3-2 he played M2M. Weboth set TIE

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From: m4nufactured

To: Lemonshine

This Post:

268232.24 in reply to 268232.17
Date: 3/19/2015 9:36:23 AM

Overall Posts Rated:

People in my league (with top teams) hate ISOs. Apparently when there is no clear mismatch and you go against very good defenses (for your level of offense) the shot selection is not as 'reasonable' as in other tactics.

NTs have been widely using ISOs for some time now, and it does look like overcoming strong defenses (at least getting to nice percentages vs. the defense level in front).
(32376)
(32391)

A main difference with Patient I see then is the shot distribution, since there's no previously appointed position.
I also think the engine selects the isolated player on a play-by-play basis, which would contribute to the balanced.

I guess the conclusion to be successful with ISOs is, basically, to train perimeter players in inside skills, and viceversa. Then obviously supported by 5 players with DR-HN and also PS as an extra.

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From: Lemonshine

To: m4nufactured

This Post:

268232.25 in reply to 268232.24
Date: 3/19/2015 11:34:10 AM

Overall Posts Rated:

1490

Well let's put it this way: a player with 170k salary (a NT player) with 19 OD will also have reasonable high Passing, JS, DR, you name it, so the situation is a bit different compared to 80k-90k players with 19-20 OD. So that we're clear 19/13/19 18/20/15 9/9/x/x has a salary of roughly 170k with the current parameters I think. With an 80k salary your player will look more like this: 17/11/18 15/16/14 9/9/x/x. If you go lower than 80k you will have to sacrifice PA, JS, perhaps driving even further.

The 2 players above will perform very differently against a defender with 19 OD. That's why, I don't think, you can take the NT as a general example to draw general conclusions.

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From: m4nufactured

To: Lemonshine

This Post:

268232.26 in reply to 268232.25
Date: 3/19/2015 11:44:19 AM

Overall Posts Rated:

That's a good point, it's usual to face high defenses on a club level (it doesn't cost that much) while your offense does not get there (due to money, again) comparing to NT teams. Thank you.

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From: Balev

This Post:

268232.27 in reply to 268232.26
Date: 3/25/2015 7:05:18 AM