BuzzerBeater Forums

ok guys, please understand this, the BB's are only going to implement TRADES if someone comes up with a way in which it is guaranteed that nothing can go wrong. So there is no point on more people answering here "a lot can go wrong.."

We realize it is a sensitive issue and will be hard come up with a good strategy, but I don't think it's impossible. So that's what we are doing here, making sugestions and brain-storming towards a good solution, and not coming here to repeat that it's hard to find the solution.

Edited 7/24/2007 4:12:39 AM by GM-Raonne

so anyway, I understand your point Forrest and Borobia, so allowing the users themselves to oversee the trades and alert the GM's is out of the question.

The other sugestion here was domenico's, the "blind trades". I particularly don't like it so much, but I'm not going to argument against it either. it's a valid proposal.

Another sugestion was the salary cap, by borobia. It's a very good suggestion in my opinion. However it may take longer to implement, so it will probably be a better suggestion for the future of BB.

anyway, let's keep brain-storming.

What if we had the trades bounded to the salaries like: two players can only be traded if the diference between their salaries is smaller than a threshold (which will variate following the salary curve - smaller for small salaries, a little bigger for big salaries - or we can use a percentage of their salaries as the threshold). This way how could someone cheat ? The users can list players into the Trades List, and you can only propose trades to players on that list (which will have the exact same system that the current Transfer List has, you just have to offer a player instead of money, and you can only offer players that fit the salary bound).

I simply do not believe that trades can be made foolproof enough to warrant being allowed.

ok, i got that you feel that way.

anyway, you can help me, if you want, by telling me what is wrong with this last proposal I made and the others that other people made before.

or we can move on to other people's opinions and suggestions.

It wouldn't work because salaries don't necessarily reflect player talent. For instance, I have a 30 year old getting paid $4.5k and 23 year old who is just as good if not better, getting paid around the same amount. IMO that would be an unfair trade but it would go through in your proposal. Not only that, what if two players(or multis) agree to trade 2 very good players for a cheap amount? If other players can't see their stats, who is going to catch them?

Edited 7/24/2007 5:19:52 AM by Vikman

the players having similar salary is a limitation (to avoid cheating), but the user ultimately have to decide to accept the trade propposal or not. So if you offer a guy that is not better then mine (or is older, or whatever) but has the same salary, I will just refuse the trade proposal.

Players with same salary may be different from each other yes, that's what makes trading interesting even with this limitation. But at least this limitation bounds the difference between the players into an amount that can guaranteed that cheating will be impossible (since trading a bad player for a good one won't happen because they will have a decent salary difference).

And about this part:

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Not only that, what if two players(or multis) agree to trade 2 very good players for a cheap amount? If other players can't see their stats, who is going to catch them?

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I don't think you understood the idea, there is no money involved. Is just a trade player for player.There is nothing ilegal to "catch" in this transaction. Is a simple trade of one player for another in which both have very very similar salary and both users agree on.

Edited 7/24/2007 7:01:33 AM by GM-Raonne

Yes I misunderstood before, I get it now.

Edited 7/24/2007 7:26:02 AM by Vikman

well you didn't really address the issue...

the example given.. where player salaries aren't enough to make players be equal....the old vs the new guy.. then people could get their friends to sign up etc.. and trade them all their young players for old players etc... so they could get a killler young team.

but there is a more fundamental problem. If you contrain trades to only allow "fair" trades... then trading really adds no extra value over the transfer market as it is.

basically you can't make trades be a feature which gives people what the transfer market doesn't, without opening the door to "unfair" trades... and "unfair" trades are going to piss people off.. and we don't want that.

Edited 7/24/2007 7:18:50 AM by BB-Forrest

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the example given.. where player salaries aren't enough to make players be equal....the old vs the new guy.. then people could get their friends to sign up etc.. and trade them all their young players for old players etc... so they could get a killler young team.

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Here is where the BB's enter with the proper definition of the threshold, in a way that the salary limitation will so that the difference between players cannot be so great to be consider cheat (simple as that). And another thing, I've seen the roster of at least 6 starting teams on BB and I know there is no way in hell that 2 teams could do trades of players with almost identical salary in way that one of the team would become a "killer team". The truth is that they won't make a single trade that would highly benefit only one team. And also we can introduec another limitation that someone proposed here a few posts ago, which is to limit the number of trades a team can do per season (for example 3). I don't think it is necessary, but it is one more option.

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but there is a more fundamental problem. If you contrain trades to only allow "fair" trades... then trading really adds no extra value over the transfer market as it is.

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Not correct at all. The whole point is here. Even with a strong constraint, you will still be able to trade players that have the same salary but a different skill set. For example, you would be able to trade a guy that has everything mediocre and jump shot fenomenal for a guy that has everything mediocre and rebounding fenomenal. There can be a lot of different players with a similar overall quality (which by now has the salary as the best indicator).

The idea is to alow, for example, a jump shot trainer to be able to trade a player he trained for another player that was trained on rebounding, or some other skill and position. And that would happen in this trade system, and this (like my domenico said after I disscussed this idea with him): "would make the game f****** unique!!"

Edited 7/24/2007 12:54:26 PM by GM-Raonne

i'll address the second point first... well if two players are really equally valued but just different, then an owner should be able to sell one on the transfer market, and buy the other for the same price... no? if they aren't equally valued then in some sense the trade is not fair...


as to the first point, so we are looking for trades which are close to fair? but not perfectly fair?

to be honest, i'd love to see trades, my heart is for the idea... i'm just trying to play devil's advocate so we think through all the possible issues so we don't hurt the game...

Edited 7/24/2007 2:41:30 PM by BB-Forrest

Its tough to think a way to make trades possible, because when you open it you have many many many possibilities, and when you have many possibilities, you have that many chances to cheat unfortunatelly.