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A way to get ahead of the curve in training? There isn't really no right or wrong answer to that, but I can answer that the best that I can.

You have to be able to get managers on board. More players you have more depth you will have overall. 2 95 TSP players will beat 1 95 and 2 85s any day of the week (Of course, this is if their builds are of similar mold and the right conditions are met/tactics, etc) The team is only as strong as it's weakest player so to speak. You have to get what i call "training success" rates up and lower the player mortality rate as well. If the class lacks those 55+ TSP monsters, do best with the 50s and 48s, as they can also be successful U21 team members. Look into the allstars as well, as some with the right training can be considered for a spot. That's the only real answer I can give besides "Hey, let's make a all JR team!" or "Let's focus on a LOT of SB" (I'm not saying no to those builds or even ignoring them/putting them down, but you do need to mix in the old generation and new generation mix of players in order to make it work. I would like to have a couple JR dudes and SB guys on the team in the near future)

2nd question, I will say that I don't have historical data or any info to back it up, being honest--i really don't. I will admit numbers is a thing I must work on to improve greatly if I were to become the coach (game plan numbers being #1 thing I will work on) But I will say that PA on a big man is very helpful in any offense. I can tell you that based on my numerous experiences of training big men...most recently Jerry Vinson. If you want some more analysis you can BB Mail me and I will gladly take the time to point out a few of his games/numbers if you want to. I just don't have the clear cut numbers at the moment.

FurYak started his post by saying

"I don't know that i was implying that your builds only had those two attributes"

just saying, it's hard to have any other attributes but those two if you had 7 OD, 7 PA, and 7 JS. That was my "you're not going this low" example. But oh well.


Last edited by FurY at 2/21/2016 2:20:39 AM

I keep hearing managers speak of these inside training methods I've suggested as if the only thing I am focusing on is high IS and DV -- thus hindering our outside game and /or defense. Absolutely not, training 1v1f would allow us to create offensively versatile prospects with high JS/IS/HN/DV -- all the scoring one would need; while at the same time, also being able to switch back and forth from offense to defense. That is an incredibly quick and efficient way to stack both defense and offense -- which, with the little time we have to train U21 prospects, that's huge.

Trust me, they will come around with with time. I think one thing people dont quite understand is the power of DR on all offenses, which your builds have. As a NT coach I understand your training 100%. Training is about getting the most possible skill pops you can, and you can achieve this through the 1v1 training.

i feel this is not this case, simply a player search returns 80 results of atleast 17/17 HA/DR
while a search of 17+ SBers brings 0 results and JR brings 3, I think that HD/DR and its effects are well documented and can be seen in players around the world. What I dont think has been researched effectively is SB as very few people train it.
JR and its effects have been somewhat experimented with but for the most part still largely unknown. Im not denying the effects of DR and HA or IS or JS or any other skill. All I want to know is that whoever is leading the nation teams of this country are not stuck in one way of thinking. Of course JS/IS/HA/DR/OD/ID helps you win, But when its largely all that is available for player builds, how do we truly know a player with 16ID/18SB/16OD doesnt shut down a guy with 18JS/18DR/18HA/18IS?? Until someone does it noone will think otherwise. But its easy to see the main build in this game is the one adub is preaching. Im not discrediting his results with it, Im just saying that we should fully explore all alternatives before committing to a singular build.

Well, I know as for myself, I have personally trained and seen the effects of both JR and SB, so I am not necessarily saying those skills arent important. In fact, a while back I was preaching SB before anyone else and I was basically ignored because I didn't have large enough sample sizes to support my claims. However, with all of that being said, it comes down to the most effective ways for training.

At the U21 level it is most likely quicker to have effective builds simply with the 1v1 training method. If you are talking about a NT player then I wouldbsay yes pleaae for the SB and JR, U21 not so much. In my opinion though, we do need to test more of those playwrs you speak of at the U21 level, but we also dont need a lot of those players being trained in case it doesnt work out. Maybe have a couple owners train these unique builds to test out when they are 21yo with the promise to get some playing time. If it works out then we can focus on training more.

Thank you. This is what I have been trying to say [just not nearly as eloquently]. SB has shown in its limited use to combat IS far better than ID [although ID and maybe OD is needed to get into position to challenge an IS].

I have seen enough sims to know that SB challenges outside shots too. I have relatively high SB wings that regularly swat three point attempts. Along with that they challenge driving attempts as well.

I'm not saying that OD/ID/SB builds are the best, I'm saying that having a couple on the roster to counter all the inside guards you're going to see might helpful. And on a club level guards [particularly SGs] built that way could be far more valuable to build than combo and inside guards.

I agree, for the most part that I have seen you are not adverse to unused tactics or player builds I was merely responding to your above post about DR being an unknown quantity to managers.

For guards of course the 1v1 build is faster, but I can prove that my method of training bigs is faster. Im not saying we dont give them 1v1F, just not in the capacity currently being preached. I know everyone will talk about the elastics with training it first and inside shot first but I find that SB trains ID/IS/RB very fast. I need to fully experiment and get some controls and really test my theory but consider my Utopians HOF draftee who trained alongside Bryan,( whos not a bad candidate either but he popped slow at 19, faster at 20).

big skills at start 5/1/6/4
Height 6'7
Age Now :20
Big skills
9/9/9/11

He actually is behind where i wanted him by 3 pops, SB wil hit 12 this week but that is 23 Big Pops in his first 2 years.
I dont have accurate data for years 1-2 of a 1v1F first plan. But with 2 full seasons of training to go if he was a big...
He also grew 2DR and 1 HA, 1OD. Give me 3 7'0 ft 5/5/5/5 starters and you could theoretically have a guy at 11/11/11/11 going into age 20 season! Granted if the guy has no HA or DR like a 1 or 2 start of course it makes sense to start them off at that. But if we have bigs who starts at 5-7 HA/Dr save it for y21 when you want them to manage gameshape. Much easier for any manager to manage gameshape doing 2 position training.

i have been preaching the effects of SB the entire thread. Sometimes when dealing with these things its best to come prepared with numbers to back up your statements otherwise the elites of the game tend to disregard whatever it is you have to say.

As far as SB on wingers, look no further then my player Carl Baxter, trained as a big not playing mostly PG for training minutes, he finally broke out of the blues on OD last week after the entire season but, He never fouled out against d.3 PGS.
That speaks volumes to me.

NT wise, what are your thoughts a player build like this.
15/10/16/12/16/12/15/15/12/18

I really cant say that I guarantee anyone would ever be on the team because of tactics and the surrounding players on the roster and depth chart. However, what I can say is that that player you show there would definitely be near the top of my chart due to his defense. I would absolutely love a guy with 18SB with that combo of OD and ID. The real question would be whether we can surround that guy with some good shooters. Thats not to say he would be bad offensively, but definitely below typical NT players. The flexibility he would give though on defense would be great.

This is potentially the landing place for Humphries at MVP Potential in ideal training conditions although i may struggle with getting the OD that high. I would imagine you could pack a bit more scoring onto a HOF or ATG

Last edited by tetrahydroc at 2/21/2016 7:33:00 PM