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Scrimmage Game Engine Feedback v2

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From: baldovius

This Post:
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87048.177 in reply to 87048.175
Date: 6/8/2009 3:55:16 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
00


Well, maybe you missed one point of the message posted by BB-Charles, that is, they can play all the test games they want, maybe on monday mornings, maybe the same games we actually played in several series, in several countries, during playoffs and playouts.


One thing is wrong with this reasoning, imho.
They can check whatever they want, but the ones who know their players are us, and we know our opponents as well.

They wouldn't be able to recognize the G underperformed or the C outperformed his "ghost" in the old match engine.

From: giona

This Post:
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87048.178 in reply to 87048.177
Date: 6/8/2009 4:11:57 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1010


Well, maybe you missed one point of the message posted by BB-Charles, that is, they can play all the test games they want, maybe on monday mornings, maybe the same games we actually played in several series, in several countries, during playoffs and playouts.


One thing is wrong with this reasoning, imho.
They can check whatever they want, but the ones who know their players are us, and we know our opponents as well.

They wouldn't be able to recognize the G underperformed or the C outperformed his "ghost" in the old match engine.


Of course your opinion is welcome and my argument can be wrong... but essentially, I was just saying that there's no point in proposing 'test the new GE in PL games because in scrimmages big players are often out'... they can make all the tests they want, possibly comparing the results with the ones obtained through the old GE.

This comparison can be done on objective indicators (stats like number of rebounds, total - per squad - per player - weighted for rebound score, etc.) that of course can be a good or bad approximation of a human evaluation of players' performance.... and that's another good reason to have a 'warm-up' period of time to get the players acquainted with the new GE.

What I'm also saying is that some objective effects of the changes to the GE could (and maybe should) have been foreseen...

This Post:
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87048.179 in reply to 87048.169
Date: 6/8/2009 5:47:02 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
It is about everything including strange distribution of shots and blocked shots. Simply the outcome including ratings should be different (not necessary the result). I know other teams experiencieng a big amount of blocks last game.


the target of this was making sb worthy the money you pay for it, and in this case it is failed when the average number of blocks is reduced, and still small guys take blocks(i just give you friendly for that which i check much often, because it is my game) ...

But i also try to compare blocking number who are normally much lower then before when i watch other game, and youknow that i was forum active and probadly i click on some game links during that ...

My first question aboutthat was a comparable stats, from BB which didn't get answered so i use my games to warn that they change could be misleading and make sb more overpaid then before.

This Post:
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87048.180 in reply to 87048.179
Date: 6/8/2009 9:35:51 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
99
So much whingeing...

Give the BB's a break and stop complaining.
Firstly they offer us an ultimately free game to play.
Second, it is their game which they want to make better
Thirdly, this is a great game however i would be disappointed and bored if the game never developed. This latest change might not be ideal but often you need to go through the refinement process in order to get to the amazing product (or game) that is waiting on the other side.

Be constructive, that is good and fine, but many are just using this as a free whinge session.

* starts to duck his head *

Last edited by Bobby Locke at 6/9/2009 1:33:15 AM

This Post:
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87048.181 in reply to 87048.180
Date: 6/8/2009 11:25:42 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
22
Also

Yesterday watching Finals game 2 i saw something interesting:

The clock didn't stop when someone score a field goal so i counted near 4 seconds between the ball go in and the posesion clock started to run again...


Just another way to reduce the number of posesions by game and add it to some time said befor about the long range ball time to go and you will have a 6 mins per game "lost" somewhere.

And of course the last minute it will stop when the ball went in...

This Post:
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87048.182 in reply to 87048.180
Date: 6/9/2009 2:13:34 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
00
I agree with Bobby.

Seriously. The game has to grow. The big issue is with defense. Defense in old GE is a Man - Man with a bonus in ID or OD defending on the zone. This is just wrong and weird.

The new game engine wasn't 100% but it is a real zone where the Defense plays a spot on the court rather than a man.

I will be really sad if these new changes don't come in. To be teased with such great things and gave them taken away forever?

Please don't let these changes disappear.

This Post:
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87048.183 in reply to 87048.182
Date: 6/9/2009 5:03:48 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
329329
The new changes are, as usual, very convenient for the improvement of the game. The problem is not the changes themselves, but the result we have all seen last saturday. I don´t think that a few more passing or a few faster pace could account for the observed results. There is probably some mistake or a bug like the one observed at the beginning at scrimmages (OD ratings using the RB skills instead of OD rating).

Some message are maybe not very helpful for BBs, but other with describes the strage things that happened last saturday, are probably really important for them in order to get our feedback of what was happening.

So, a better zone defense is good for everybody, but only if this is properly implemented. Now, we don´t know what exactly was the problem, so the only thing we can do is reporting the problem we observed.

Debate is not about changes yes or not, but whether changes were working as expected or not.

¡Me aburro! (Homer Simpson)
This Post:
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87048.184 in reply to 87048.183
Date: 6/9/2009 5:32:47 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
308308
The most shocking is that using the old GE the score could be 90-70 and that means you have good offense and good defense, now the scores could be 130-110, but although the adventage was the same, seem that your attack had improved and your defense is gone.

Perhaps it is pace, as you said, need to be improved, because having so many possessions, playing zone defense, centers defend a perimeter shoting too many times, a perimeter player try to stop a rival driving of centers or PF its too many times, fouls in these events are too hight, so the live shock people too.

Last edited by GM-Zuper at 6/9/2009 5:33:35 AM

This Post:
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87048.185 in reply to 87048.184
Date: 6/9/2009 6:33:59 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
506506
but although the adventage was the same, seem that your attack had improved and your defense is gone.


As Charles said in another post about this problem, this is not right. (post nr 119 in this thread)

3) One of the issues that has always existed in this engine is that the pace is too high; the typical NBA game has about 95 possessions, while in BuzzerBeater that number is often closer to 120. In the past, there have been too many possessions compared to an NBA game but also too much defense. We were trying to fix these things one step at a time in order to reduce the number of changes that come in all at the same time, and it's evident that the end result is that people are looking at the scores and saying their defense doesn't work anymore. I disagree; defense that concedes 101 points in 126 possessions, as I saw in the case of somebody who was complaining about the game engine, is actually quite good defense. It's just the 126 possessions that are fooling you.

This Post:
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87048.186 in reply to 87048.185
Date: 6/9/2009 7:04:31 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
329329
As a human person, Charles may be wrong, and I bet he is very interesting in receiving our feedback about the changes. This is the goal of this thread.

There are many examples in the short history of BB, of bugs that were not recognized by the developers in the first moment.

It seems clear to me that no matter what defense you have, the result was similar in last saturday matches.

57 - 98 is too much for an offensive team playing against another team with a excellent defense.
59 - 106 is too much scoring for a defensive team with low attack.

So two different teams obtaining very similar good results in very bad conditions does not seem very balanced.


Last edited by Emilio at 6/9/2009 7:05:02 AM

¡Me aburro! (Homer Simpson)
This Post:
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87048.187 in reply to 87048.185
Date: 6/9/2009 7:21:18 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
308308
I read this before. But the feeling was my attack had improved and my defense is gone, because in the old GE my maximun score was 100, now i can score 120 playing TIE.

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