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but when i look at the tl, there are a lot decent draft pick avaible for low prices, or get even fired cause they are just "stars". I don't think that we need much more talent, and if we get stronger talent i am quite sure the problem would be the same since we look only on the top 5% worth to get trained.

And the NBA, doesn't need to put that much work in it, the skill decline is till now nearly a non factor here but i believe from the speed closer to the progress the player made through training which is insane in real life terms.

Ok my two cents

Pini has identified a thing in the game whereby higher league's are not training young players, and that the main bulk of training is done by lower league teams.

Im going to approach this problem from a totally different viewpoint.

Because of the fact that the lower teams do most of the training of young players, it has led to the following phenomena:
- Higher league teams are mentoring their lower league counterparts in how to train players, thus creating a greater sense of community. This is highly evident in the Australian league, where there is a strong community development approach, and higher league teams communicate and help out lower league teams.
- Higher league teams have actually tanked for some seasons in order to go down through the leagues, such that they can experience the joys of rebuilding teams from scratch, and amoungst other things, training players from scratch.

Both of these events are caused by the current system of the game. Both of these events are actually positive in a sense that they create such a great community, especially so here in Australia. I would hate to see disruption of this.

Im not sure if Pini's suggestion is terrible. he is trying to resolve an issue that he has identified. However, im not sure if his suggestion would make a difference, at all to anything. The higher league teams are always going to avoid training players, it is almost in the mechanics of the game. The reward for training players in higher leagues, would have to massive compared to what they are now for a top league team.

And fundamentally, i believe that the buying/selling part of this game, is essential and is a core component. The game isnt ALL about buying/selling, but it is an integral part and the better you are at it, the better your team.
Much like any other aspect to this game. the better you are at it, the better your team.

NBA has 30 teams. How many of those 30 draftees in the first round are worth much? I think there are more than 30 great players coming out of the draft of BB each season. There is a difference ofcourse. In the NBA a team can claim the player without putting any effort in this players developement before he is eligible to be trained by them via drafting. In BB teams that draft those players get to train them for their own team or sell them.

Last edited by Kukoc at 12/7/2011 6:11:26 AM

If I'll summarize your claim, you preffer the "community-hood" over a real-BB-world and game.

Each year, in most of the NBA teams, you will find draft player/s. Some of them will become the top guy at those teams, and some will be role players.
The abilities of NBA's draft players are high, but also they are getting better and better over the years.
Here, in BB (site) you will not find (in the high leagues) any young player trained. And by that, one of the main features of this game will not be used.
And as we both know, comparing this with training an "old guy" that will improve very slow is like playing only on the cup against teams from much lower leagues and by that not realy experiencing the game as it should (selecting tactics, etc.).

Your next claim had pointed out that High-league-teams are tanking just to EXPERIENCE THE GAME, which they CANNOT at the league they are.
It only strengthen my point.
Why do they need to do that (and making the league they will join "unbalanced") instead of experiencing it at their OWN league?

It also proves, again, my claim that I've (already) brought proofs to - the game stops being challenging for the higher league teams.
Newer users cannot compete against them, because the assets difference will never get smaller.
This is why they need to get to lower leagues, in order of exploring the game again from the old POV of draft training.

REMINDER:
I've brought information that showed that in France, Spain and Italy (which consists of 11,333 users out of ~50K users) there is not even one team who had join this game later that Season-4!!! [14 seasons ago!!!]
This proof points to the most critical issue that must be handled and fixed in this game. And as you can see, it also "touches" this suggestion.

Last edited by Pini פיני at 12/7/2011 2:49:14 PM

REMINDER:
I've brought information that showed that in France, Spain and Italy (which consists of 11,333 users out of ~50K users) there is not even one team who had join this game later that Season-4!!! [14 seasons ago!!!]
This proof points to the most critical issue that must be handled and fixed in this game. And as you can see, it also "touches" this suggestion.

You forgot to mention that your point was immediatly shot down by an BB with a statistic aswell. Bad loser.

REMINDER:
I've brought information that showed that in France, Spain and Italy (which consists of 11,333 users out of ~50K users) there is not even one team who had join this game later that Season-4!!! [14 seasons ago!!!]
This proof points to the most critical issue that must be handled and fixed in this game. And as you can see, it also "touches" this suggestion.

You forgot to mention that your point was immediatly shot down by an BB with a statistic aswell. Bad loser.

"Amazingly" you did not relate to the statistics that shows that three of the greatest BB-nations had not even one team from 14 out of 18 seasons.

"Amazingly" you forgot to mention that you started this game early enought - season-6, and now that you are finaly at the second league changing the game to be more competative for new users will not suite you.

"Amazingly" you forgot to mention that Germany is a not a big BB-nation with less than 1,000 users, and with only a single team from those 14 out of 18 seasons playing at the first league.

The three nations I've brought are just an extreme example of the phenomenon.
There are much more, and the rare cases brought are just magnifying the general case, and mainly does not go into details - what happened to those other teams.
Like "Coach Regan" wrote, there are (not a few) who do that on purpose, as they CANNOT get to a lower league due to competativeness (on court). This is only one answer for the other counter-examples (which again just prove my saying precise).

Last edited by Pini פיני at 12/7/2011 4:56:50 PM

but you also forgot that the game already changed, as i said earlier to you you earned like crazy at the beginning since the income maximum was close to the one today and there was no player with the necessary salaries to spend it on a weekly basis.

Today we highly skilled players, and dynamic salarys who orientate at the teams income ... Also strong plaers get pretty cheap, so that the promotion bonus give you oppurtunity to get good talents, even when they won't be the youngest dudes. I believe with the todays enviroment, you wouldn't see such phenomens any more.

And even your examples looks just in one direction to proove it, cause there was a lot of other cases where you would come to another conclusion you just ignored.

You like to pick countrys that suit you. What about USA?, Turkey?, Poland? There are more big countrys with teams from older seasons (one of the teams even started in season 10, that's whooping 7 seasons to get to the top, anything is possible, just be great and have some luck). Obviously managers that have played longer, have more experience in running the club. It's hard to get to divI, but that's how it should be. It's as hard to relegate from divI as an old team and get back to divI.

I've brought information that showed that in France, Spain and Italy (which consists of 11,333 users out of ~50K users) there is not even one team who had join this game later that Season-4!!! [14 seasons ago!!!]
This proof points to the most critical issue that must be handled and fixed in this game. And as you can see, it also "touches" this suggestion.

Unfortunately this is not proof at all. There are so many different factors in different leagues. Let me give an example.
Lets say, in season 4, in Italy, there was only 150 users, across two division's. In season 4, in France, similar. Compare that to say, when i started playing this game in season 12. In season 12, Australia had about 500 users, across 4 divissions. Therefore i started in Division 4.
Now, i am top of division 2, I am 10-0 and dominating quite well (if I do say so myself).
All the teams that are below me, started playing the game after me. with the exception of 2 teams. If I had started in season4, guess where I would be? Division I! hoorah!

Now its taken me 6 seasons of hard work to get to where I am. Should I be in division I? Hell no... Should i be in division II? Probably, (very nearly made it last year). Should the guy who has been playing the game for 5 more seasons be in Division I? most certainly, if he is a decent manager! Should the guy who has a bigger arena, simply because he has played the game longer than I, have more income than me? Definately!
My point being is that it is logical for teams who have played the game the longest, to be the best. This will always be the case no matter what measures are put in place.

and yes. I prefer the community aspect to this game. I would rather consistently be a division II team and have the community aspect of this game, as opposed to be winning div I all the time and having no one to talk to. I think its very incorrect of you to state your opinion about what the game is designed to be as fact. It is not fact, this is your opinion. In your opinion the game should be about winning, fairness, eveness and gameplay. In my opinion the game is about fun and community. Your opinion is not fact and using capitals and bold font does not make it so.
I still agree with you that there is a fundamental problem in the game, in that division 1 teams do not train players, i just do not agree with the currently suggested solution.